Author Topic: Warren Buffet thinks Berkshire is undervalued  (Read 4691 times)

Mungerville

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Re: Warren Buffet thinks Berkshire is undervalued
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 02:56:17 PM »
Is that 1.7 inclusive of the one-time gain in the utilities division?


philassor

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Re: Warren Buffet thinks Berkshire is undervalued
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 03:29:57 PM »
Mungerville, you are right,  book value is a moving target and is obviously different today than it was 2 months ago.

The point is however is that the element driving the book value down such as the  long term put options value derived from various stock indexes contribute mightily  to the book's apparent deterioration when they do not have a meaning in the context of short term emotionality of the market. ( As per Buffetts discussion on the Black Sholes formula and its implication on financial statements p 20  and his note 3 page 26); same can be said about the securities held in aggregate way below intrinsic value but temporarily devaluated by a depressive Mr. Market.

Book value is therefore significantly understated, Berkshire price today is near an artificially low book value and is therefore far below intrinsic value.

Anyway, what is remarkable is that operationally Berkshire did not have a bad year in 2008: to paraphrase Buffett the two most important businesses (insurance and utility) delivered outstanding results and have excellent prospects, on top of that capital allocation went also very well (apart from his confessed unforced errors with Conoco and the irish banks) and prospect look bright in this illiquid market.

woodstove

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Re: Warren Buffet thinks Berkshire is undervalued
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 07:46:24 PM »
"operationally Berkshire did not have a bad year in 2008" ... right on!  And I think the "confessed unforced errors" aspect is overstated.  It may be helpful for Buffett to think in those terms, and may be helpful protective colouration, but seen by a passive spectator, it looks more like Conoco was a trend-following hedge run out to end of trend, and Irish banks was a soundly conceived contrarian bet.

Some of Buffett's macro trend following, eg currencies or oil & gas pricing, seem to involve being right initially - because of the discrepancy of price from value, plus pressures on price, are so strong - and then putting about half of profits back into following position re same trend. So Conoco can be seen as trend following begun with PetroChina, for instance.  Or, if you prefer, think of it as a hedge against possibility that oil and gas prices would keep going up extraordinarily, and cause distress to other Berkshire enterprises.  In either case, not a bad move seen in context.

The Irish banks - completely outside my scope - but Buffett likely had sound analytical reasons for making the investments, and it probably depended on a binary decision of Irish bank regulators / government.  Part of Berkshire's basket of financials, not bad investing strategy if some go down - like insurance writing.

Maybe more problematic, but not yet clarified re loss ratio, is municipal bond insurance.  Buffett's letter describes increasing premium and also projects a potential risk due to cultural shift in propensity to default, sticking far-away insurer with municipal debt default costs.  It is still to be seen to what extent that risk might materialize.  I'm sure Berkshire's people are very aware of the considerations though and do not really personally anticipate there will be material loss even if default rates in general population of municipal issuers gets severe.

Hershey

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Re: Warren Buffet thinks Berkshire is undervalued
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2009, 11:04:04 AM »
Mungerville,
Yes, the utilities earnings include the gain from Constellation Energy.  Fair point.