Author Topic: Average Canadian richer than average american  (Read 4399 times)



scorpioncapital

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1524
    • scorpion capital
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2018, 07:46:45 AM »
That's the output. What's the input?

For example, assume Canada has a population of 10.
There is 1 billionaire.
I then go and steal from him his 1 billion and give it to the other 9 (to be fair I also give him his 'fair share')
The average net worth of the 10 go from $0 to $100 million each!
Wow, real wealthy..but it was due to theft and socialism.

So I think you have to look at the inputs. You can redistribute wealth in such a way everyone looks wealthier, but theft is still theft. If you are the one who had below average before you're happy.
If are the guy who had way above average, you want to get the heck out of Canada as early and as fast as possible :)



oddballstocks

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2145
    • Oddball Stocks Blog
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2018, 07:58:33 AM »
So what?

Is this a "Canada is better because..." type thing? You have a very nice country, beautiful scenery, very nice people, clean cities, vast natural resources, no enemies.  I've never lived there, but the quality of life seems great.

I only know of a handful of Americans who've moved to Canada.  I looked at it, and according to immigration I don't quality in any capacity to be there.  Even if I go through the questionnaire and say I'd relocate my company and employed 50+ people I wouldn't qualify.  So I'm not sure what it takes to get into Canada.  I messed with the little thing for a while and couldn't trigger any conditions where it would work outside being a student or married to a Canadian.

At the same time I know a ton of Canadians who have moved south and don't intend on going back.  I've never tried to get into the US (since I was born here), but it must be easier.

Is part of the allure of Canada that it's like Switzerland?  It's exclusive to a selected group?  Is that why the average is higher?
The ultimate edge for bank investors: http://www.completebankdata.com

StubbleJumper

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 08:03:23 AM »
Always regard wealth statistics with a grain of salt because they are usually generated through surveys.  So the questions are, "What do you figure your house is worth, what do you figure you've got in the bank, what are your stocks worth, do you have any debt and how much?"  People answer to their best ability, but most people are woefully incapable of accurately estimating their net worth because they don't understand the value of their pension, or the survey might not even ask about their pension.  We, on this site, know that pensions (both public and private) are a very large asset for almost everybody in North America.

So, assume that there is zero value assigned to pensions in those statistics.  Do the mental arithmetic about what a basic public pension is worth:

Canada:
Canada Pension Plan maximum monthly benefit (age 65): CAD$1,134.17
Old Age Security maximum monthly benefit (age 65): CAD$586.66
Total maximum monthly public pension:      CAD$1,722.83


US
Social security maximum monthly benefit (age 65): US$2,589


So, for somebody with a decent income, the annual public pension is about US$14k higher in the United States.  Do your mental discounted cashflow thing, informed by life expectancy, and you might conclude that the maximum US public pension is worth US$100k+ more than the maximum Canadian public pension.  And it's likely that a value of zero has been provided by survey respondents in both countries.  Your wealth gap suddenly disappears and it even pivots in favour of the United States.

Anyway, all of these reports are interesting, but we need to be pretty cautious about the interpretation.


SJ

alpha

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 89
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 08:05:07 AM »
Canada is a giant landmass filled with natural resources located directly beside the largest economy in the world, and it only has ~30 million residents. No surprise the average resident will be "wealthier" than the USA, but it is also amazing how poor it is compared to other small resource rich nations.




RichardGibbons

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 08:53:49 AM »
When you look at wealth (vs. income), Canada has a big "advantage" in that its two biggest real estate markets are in a bubble.

cameronfen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 09:25:50 AM »
That's the output. What's the input?

For example, assume Canada has a population of 10.
There is 1 billionaire.
I then go and steal from him his 1 billion and give it to the other 9 (to be fair I also give him his 'fair share')
The average net worth of the 10 go from $0 to $100 million each!
Wow, real wealthy..but it was due to theft and socialism.

So I think you have to look at the inputs. You can redistribute wealth in such a way everyone looks wealthier, but theft is still theft. If you are the one who had below average before you're happy.
If are the guy who had way above average, you want to get the heck out of Canada as early and as fast as possible :)

I don't want to be an a-hole, but the average wealth does not change when you have one guy with a billion dollars and 9 others with zero.  This still averages out to be $100 million each. 

alwaysinvert

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 790
    • värdeinvesteraren
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 09:39:02 AM »
So what?

Is this a "Canada is better because..." type thing? You have a very nice country, beautiful scenery, very nice people, clean cities, vast natural resources, no enemies.  I've never lived there, but the quality of life seems great.

I only know of a handful of Americans who've moved to Canada.  I looked at it, and according to immigration I don't quality in any capacity to be there.  Even if I go through the questionnaire and say I'd relocate my company and employed 50+ people I wouldn't qualify.  So I'm not sure what it takes to get into Canada.  I messed with the little thing for a while and couldn't trigger any conditions where it would work outside being a student or married to a Canadian.

At the same time I know a ton of Canadians who have moved south and don't intend on going back.  I've never tried to get into the US (since I was born here), but it must be easier.

Is part of the allure of Canada that it's like Switzerland?  It's exclusive to a selected group?  Is that why the average is higher?

Doesn't seem like it should be that hard or exclusive when immigration levels approach 1% of the current population every year, of whom "the economic class" (followed by "the family class") is the biggest group according to this article:

https://globalnews.ca/news/3836805/340k-immigrants-per-year-by-2020-government-unveils-new-immigration-targets/

The figure I could find for the US was 1.49m immigrants (2016) which would equal 0.4% of the US population. So overall it seems markedly easier to move to Canada than to the US, but I guess that depends on who you are and where you come from.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 09:41:01 AM by alwaysinvert »

Sharad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
    • Blogging About Money
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 10:33:59 AM »
Canada is a giant landmass filled with natural resources located directly beside the largest economy in the world, and it only has ~30 million residents. No surprise the average resident will be "wealthier" than the USA, but it is also amazing how poor it is compared to other small resource rich nations.

Alpha, apart from Norway and perhaps Singapore (not a resource rich country, but a wealthy "per-capita" country), most of those countries use expats at obscenely low wages to extract the resources of their country, hence their perceived high per-capita wealth.

One simply has to look at what is happening in Saudi Arabia, as they ween off state-employment and now require S.A. citizens to have particular jobs as opposed to expats, to see how wealth has been distributed, and why high per-capita wealth looked so good. The same situation occurs in Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Brunei, etc.

Canada just looks wealthy because we haven't seen the housing correction that the US has, and the country is more urban than the US (so perceived wealth of that cube in the sky looks better than a hundred acres in the hinterland).



Just my two cents.
"If we are not able to ask skeptical questions, to interrogate those who tell us that something is true, to be skeptical of those in authority, then we are up for grabs for the next charlatan - political or religious - who comes ambling along."
- Carl Sagan

LC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2513
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 12:30:39 PM »

I don't want to be an a-hole, but the average wealth does not change when you have one guy with a billion dollars and 9 others with zero.  This still averages out to be $100 million each.

Math status: successful!  ;D
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
brk.b | cash