Author Topic: Average Canadian richer than average american  (Read 3987 times)

bizaro86

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 12:58:27 PM »
I think if  you reset Vancouver/Toronto real estate prices to reasonable US comparables (say Chicago and Seattle) that would make a pretty significant difference to the outcome.



shalab

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 10:32:01 PM »
Agree, Canada is a nice country. It is far more expensive than USA though.

You are right that it is easier to immigrate from Canada to USA than the other way round. (for both legal and illegal). Canada has laxer rules for legal immigration from some countries. For illegal immigrants, it seems really hard to get in.

I also looked at the option of getting Canadian Greencard but it wasn't straight forward. I could go as a skilled person or an investor. In addition, one doesn't get social security automatically.

Why Canada is richer than US? I think there are several reasons:

      - real estate is more expensive, even in small towns, I found real estate more expensive than the US.
              e.g:, this city near Banff national park, https://www.royallepage.ca/en/bc/golden/properties/
                      nova scotia - https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Real-Estate-Listings/NS.html
      - very little spending on military
      - cheap education
      - almost treated like citizens in USA with similar benefits
      - special nafta visa for employment in USA that is very easy to get
      - many(most?) college grads end up in the USA for work
     

So what?

Is this a "Canada is better because..." type thing? You have a very nice country, beautiful scenery, very nice people, clean cities, vast natural resources, no enemies.  I've never lived there, but the quality of life seems great.

I only know of a handful of Americans who've moved to Canada.  I looked at it, and according to immigration I don't quality in any capacity to be there.  Even if I go through the questionnaire and say I'd relocate my company and employed 50+ people I wouldn't qualify.  So I'm not sure what it takes to get into Canada.  I messed with the little thing for a while and couldn't trigger any conditions where it would work outside being a student or married to a Canadian.

At the same time I know a ton of Canadians who have moved south and don't intend on going back.  I've never tried to get into the US (since I was born here), but it must be easier.

Is part of the allure of Canada that it's like Switzerland?  It's exclusive to a selected group?  Is that why the average is higher?

rb

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 11:18:04 PM »
You are right that it is easier to immigrate from Canada to USA than the other way round. (for both legal and illegal). Canada has laxer rules for legal immigration from some countries. For illegal immigrants, it seems really hard to get in.

I also looked at the option of getting Canadian Greencard but it wasn't straight forward. I could go as a skilled person or an investor. In addition, one doesn't get social security automatically.

Why Canada is richer than US? I think there are several reasons:

      - real estate is more expensive, even in small towns, I found real estate more expensive than the US.
              e.g:, this city near Banff national park, https://www.royallepage.ca/en/bc/golden/properties/
                      nova scotia - https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Real-Estate-Listings/NS.html
      - very little spending on military
      - cheap education
      - almost treated like citizens in USA with similar benefits
      - special nafta visa for employment in USA that is very easy to get
      - many(most?) college grads end up in the USA for work
From what you write it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about.

rb

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 11:47:57 PM »
So what?

Is this a "Canada is better because..." type thing? You have a very nice country, beautiful scenery, very nice people, clean cities, vast natural resources, no enemies.  I've never lived there, but the quality of life seems great.

I only know of a handful of Americans who've moved to Canada.  I looked at it, and according to immigration I don't quality in any capacity to be there.  Even if I go through the questionnaire and say I'd relocate my company and employed 50+ people I wouldn't qualify.  So I'm not sure what it takes to get into Canada.  I messed with the little thing for a while and couldn't trigger any conditions where it would work outside being a student or married to a Canadian.

At the same time I know a ton of Canadians who have moved south and don't intend on going back.  I've never tried to get into the US (since I was born here), but it must be easier.

Is part of the allure of Canada that it's like Switzerland?  It's exclusive to a selected group?  Is that why the average is higher?
No, Canada is not an exclusive club like Switzerland. Though exclusive types types do get let in. They mostly go to Vancouver.

I'd say that you probably didn't understand the requirements for immigration. The system is actually quite straight forward and from what I've picked up here I'd say that someone like you (though not you personally) would qualify easily. You have a usable post secondary education, you have work experience, you don't have a criminal record, you speak English fluently, and have money to support yourself and your family for a while. You're in. Easily!

The process will be really smooth and once you're approved you would have 1 year to present yourself at a point of entry and then you and your family become permanent Canadian residents. After you've been a resident for 3 years you're eligible to apply for citizenship.

The reason why I say you personally would not qualify is that I remember you mentioning that you've had a stroke a while back. That would cause you to fail the medical requirements for immigration. However, this is an unfortunate fact that is particular to you as a person. A generic candidate with your background would be quite welcome here.

augustabound

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 02:47:39 AM »
      - many(most?) college grads end up in the USA for work

According to StatsCan an average of 30000 people moved to the U.S. per year from 2000 to 2010, less than 1% of the population. (there were no stats on how many were college graduates that moved)

StatsCan also shows about 450000 people get a post secondary diploma or degree each year.
"Serenity now, insanity later." - Lloyd Braun

SharperDingaan

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2018, 05:43:55 AM »
      - many(most?) college grads end up in the USA for work

According to StatsCan an average of 30000 people moved to the U.S. per year from 2000 to 2010, less than 1% of the population. (there were no stats on how many were college graduates that moved)

StatsCan also shows about 450000 people get a post secondary diploma or degree each year.

Just to add to this:

Per StatsCan Canada has 37M people, with the bulk of population growth coming from immigration.
As College/University facilities are centralized, graduates are expected to move to find work. No different to the US.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/12-581-x/2018000/pop-eng.htm

There is a very big difference between students simply using the opportunity to travel/work abroad immediately after graduation, and people moving for a better life. Graduates are also shoppiing for their significant others - so if you play hockey, and like blue-eyed blonds?, you move to Scandanavia and find one to help you learn the language. Ultimately, life events will determine where you end up. 

SD


« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 06:14:29 AM by SharperDingaan »

bizaro86

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2018, 11:59:21 AM »
What do you mean centralized? Every major Canadian city and many minor ones has a university. The vast majority of the population lives within commuting distance of at least one.

rukawa

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2018, 07:54:47 PM »
Always regard wealth statistics with a grain of salt because they are usually generated through surveys.  So the questions are, "What do you figure your house is worth, what do you figure you've got in the bank, what are your stocks worth, do you have any debt and how much?"  People answer to their best ability, but most people are woefully incapable of accurately estimating their net worth because they don't understand the value of their pension, or the survey might not even ask about their pension.  We, on this site, know that pensions (both public and private) are a very large asset for almost everybody in North America.

So, assume that there is zero value assigned to pensions in those statistics.  Do the mental arithmetic about what a basic public pension is worth:

Canada:
Canada Pension Plan maximum monthly benefit (age 65): CAD$1,134.17
Old Age Security maximum monthly benefit (age 65): CAD$586.66
Total maximum monthly public pension:      CAD$1,722.83


US
Social security maximum monthly benefit (age 65): US$2,589


So, for somebody with a decent income, the annual public pension is about US$14k higher in the United States.  Do your mental discounted cashflow thing, informed by life expectancy, and you might conclude that the maximum US public pension is worth US$100k+ more than the maximum Canadian public pension.  And it's likely that a value of zero has been provided by survey respondents in both countries.  Your wealth gap suddenly disappears and it even pivots in favour of the United States.

Anyway, all of these reports are interesting, but we need to be pretty cautious about the interpretation.


SJ

Our pension plans are all in way way way way better shape than pensions plans in the US. Your pension plans are basically large unfunded liabilities. I'm not one for beating up on the US but honestly this is one place where I think Canadians are far better off and where our leaders have mostly done the right thing in huge contrast to the US.

shalab

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2018, 08:07:40 PM »
Here is some more data,

usaid - the government agency that distributes aid, hires in Canada. A poorer country by average income and average net worth providing "aid" to a richer country. One of the goals of this agency is to expand "American values"

https://www.linkedin.com/company/usaid-canada
https://www.usaid.gov/careers

To make things more interesting, usaid was also distributing aid in Canada. In 2017, it gave 28 million dollars in "aid" to Canada.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/aid-dashboard.html#2017

Companies like MSFT hire from Canada as they would in the US.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/cdndevs/2015/09/22/student-jobs-at-microsoft-faq/

And then there is the quora post:

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Canadians-leave-Canada-and-move-to-the-US

You are right that it is easier to immigrate from Canada to USA than the other way round. (for both legal and illegal). Canada has laxer rules for legal immigration from some countries. For illegal immigrants, it seems really hard to get in.

I also looked at the option of getting Canadian Greencard but it wasn't straight forward. I could go as a skilled person or an investor. In addition, one doesn't get social security automatically.

Why Canada is richer than US? I think there are several reasons:

      - real estate is more expensive, even in small towns, I found real estate more expensive than the US.
              e.g:, this city near Banff national park, https://www.royallepage.ca/en/bc/golden/properties/
                      nova scotia - https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Real-Estate-Listings/NS.html
      - very little spending on military
      - cheap education
      - almost treated like citizens in USA with similar benefits
      - special nafta visa for employment in USA that is very easy to get
      - many(most?) college grads end up in the USA for work
From what you write it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 08:37:10 PM by shalab »

rb

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Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2018, 09:24:07 PM »
Here is some more data,

usaid - the government agency that distributes aid, hires in Canada. A poorer country by average income and average net worth providing "aid" to a richer country. One of the goals of this agency is to expand "American values"

https://www.linkedin.com/company/usaid-canada
https://www.usaid.gov/careers

To make things more interesting, usaid was also distributing aid in Canada. In 2017, it gave 28 million dollars in "aid" to Canada.

https://explorer.usaid.gov/aid-dashboard.html#2017

Companies like MSFT hire from Canada as they would in the US.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/cdndevs/2015/09/22/student-jobs-at-microsoft-faq/

And then there is the quora post:

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Canadians-leave-Canada-and-move-to-the-US

You are right that it is easier to immigrate from Canada to USA than the other way round. (for both legal and illegal). Canada has laxer rules for legal immigration from some countries. For illegal immigrants, it seems really hard to get in.

I also looked at the option of getting Canadian Greencard but it wasn't straight forward. I could go as a skilled person or an investor. In addition, one doesn't get social security automatically.

Why Canada is richer than US? I think there are several reasons:

      - real estate is more expensive, even in small towns, I found real estate more expensive than the US.
              e.g:, this city near Banff national park, https://www.royallepage.ca/en/bc/golden/properties/
                      nova scotia - https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Real-Estate-Listings/NS.html
      - very little spending on military
      - cheap education
      - almost treated like citizens in USA with similar benefits
      - special nafta visa for employment in USA that is very easy to get
      - many(most?) college grads end up in the USA for work
From what you write it seems like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Is there point you're trying to arrive at?