Author Topic: Average Canadian richer than average american  (Read 4646 times)

DTEJD1997

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2018, 05:01:47 PM »
I simply marvel at how modern, clean and prosperous Windsor Ontario looks.

Are you sure you're talking about Windsor, Ontario??? I grew up in the Greater Toronto Area and we avoid Windsor.  I used to subcontract for a friend and had some service calls there a few times, general retail renovations in malls and power centres. (maybe 5-8 years ago)

We found Windsor the opposite of what you describe.

I am 1,000,000% sure that I am looking at Windsor.  I have been to Windsor more times than I can count.  I have not been into Windsor for maybe 15 years though. 

Perhaps it is only the waterfront and maybe 1 block in that looks prosperous?

You can easily look into Canada from downtown Detroit.  From what I can see from that limited perspective, it looks great.  MUCH better than Detroit (even with Detroit's recent good fortune).


augustabound

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2018, 05:11:30 PM »
Having said that, the view of Detroit from the Windsor side looks fantastic.  Downtown looks very vibrant.  :D

I haven't been to Windsor in a few years but I always avoided it. 

My uncle goes to the casino there every couple of months and front what I can tell it's like you said, near the water and around the casino is pretty nice but once you get a couple of blocks in, it gets sketchy from what they tell me.
"Serenity now, insanity later." - Lloyd Braun

Cigarbutt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1206
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2018, 06:58:41 PM »
Short version:

For the CPP part, Canada is slightly ahead but in the grand scheme of the underfunded retirement liabilities, this will be a marathon and we've barely scratched the surface.
...
This is nonsense from the point of CPP and Canada. You can see that with some simple excel modelling.

Thanks for the time taken to dispel the nonsense.
I respect what you describe and understand that CPP funds are "segregated".

But the reference provided about the retirement shortfall is based on the three-pillar concept and:
-the premise that funds will remain segregated is an assumption that can change
(I remember that this was a big issue with excess federal insurance employment funds when rating agencies felt that the books should balance)
-the old age security schemes are pay-as-you-go in a historical context of an increasing burden going forward
-in 1989, the universal OAS program lost its universality for some with the clawback provision

I remember discussing this topic with uncles who suggested that I should not rely too much on the government for retirement since I wasn't born at the right time.

Born at the Right Time: A History of the Baby Boom Generation. Owram, Doug   Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1996.

rb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2018, 08:25:49 PM »
Short version:

For the CPP part, Canada is slightly ahead but in the grand scheme of the underfunded retirement liabilities, this will be a marathon and we've barely scratched the surface.
...
This is nonsense from the point of CPP and Canada. You can see that with some simple excel modelling.

Thanks for the time taken to dispel the nonsense.
I respect what you describe and understand that CPP funds are "segregated".

But the reference provided about the retirement shortfall is based on the three-pillar concept and:
-the premise that funds will remain segregated is an assumption that can change
(I remember that this was a big issue with excess federal insurance employment funds when rating agencies felt that the books should balance)
-the old age security schemes are pay-as-you-go in a historical context of an increasing burden going forward
-in 1989, the universal OAS program lost its universality for some with the clawback provision

I remember discussing this topic with uncles who suggested that I should not rely too much on the government for retirement since I wasn't born at the right time.

Born at the Right Time: A History of the Baby Boom Generation. Owram, Doug   Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1996.
No it isn't. The reference you've quoted is absolute drivel from an actuarial perspective. It's basically a piece that looks and sounds smart meant for people that don't know what's what. It's marked right at the front that it is an opinion piece that is not endorsed by the World Economic Forum. The author is a US politico who has no experience is either investment or actuarial sciences. So it's not a reference for anything.

When it comes to your uncle he's entitled to his opinion. I have a fun uncle too. Love the guy to bits. He has lots of nuggets I enjoy. But I don't make financial decisions based on what he says. Similarly, your uncle's opinion isn't worth much in this context unless he was an FCIA or something like that.

Basically when confronted with mathematical facts your retort is basically that "anything can happen". Sure we could get hit by an asteroid tomorrow and we'd all be dead. But that's not the principle on how life insurance companies are run.

bizaro86

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2018, 10:04:14 PM »
My understanding of the overcontributions made by current workers is that they're basically covering past shortfalls. Ie, they switched from mostly pay-as-you-go to a pre-funded model, and so current workers are paying for their own pension plus current retirees.

I do imagine if CPPIB continues to rock that eventually someone will conclude that lower premiums and/or higher benefits would be politically popular.

If they pick higher benefits I personally hope they only pay them for years worked past the switch to higher contributions in the 1990s.

rb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2018, 10:42:57 PM »
My understanding of the overcontributions made by current workers is that they're basically covering past shortfalls. Ie, they switched from mostly pay-as-you-go to a pre-funded model, and so current workers are paying for their own pension plus current retirees.

I do imagine if CPPIB continues to rock that eventually someone will conclude that lower premiums and/or higher benefits would be politically popular.

If they pick higher benefits I personally hope they only pay them for years worked past the switch to higher contributions in the 1990s.
I appreciate your indignation and I think it's warranted. But in my view your hope will not be realized. The "golden generation" has under contributed and will collect in full. Fair it is not, but such is life. I've become resigned to that fact.

Looking past that I think as a society we face another test in the future. Over the next 20-25 years CPP assets will grow to a level that's about double than what's required to service its liabilities. Right now we're in we'll all live forever and we're sure we're guaranteed to run out of money mode. But as assets grow and grow and grow I'm sure people are gonna start to notice. I'm looking forward to that conversation.

SharperDingaan

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2892
Re: Average Canadian richer than average american
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2018, 04:56:47 AM »
CPP 2018 A/R  http://www.cppib.com/en/ar2018/

Every generation in a DB pension plan bitches that the generations before it got a 'free ride'.
Until it's pointed out that were it not for those previous generations, there would not be a pension plan.

It is also pretty to hard to argue that the CPP will 'not be there' when the time comes. Every Canadian is guaranteed a minimum retirement income (CPP, OAS, GIS) by the federal government; the same guarantee that backs every fixed income obligation issued by the Bank of Canada. Uncles just didn't want nephews relying on it.

The major Canadian DB Pension Plans (CPP, CP, Teachers, OMERS, OPSEAU, HOOPP, etc) are also very well run, and currently are for the most part in significant SURPLUS positions.

Re centralized universities: http://www.electronicinfo.ca/universities

Agreed universities are in the major population centres, and most people live in the major population centres. Hence for most people there is a university within relatively easy commuting distance. But if you're from a rural area, from northern canada, or your university isn't very good, or doesn't offer your language (first nation, french, etc.) - you are going to have to travel.

Nothing wrong with that

SD

« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 04:38:34 AM by SharperDingaan »