Author Topic: Cryptocurrencies  (Read 150165 times)

clutch

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #820 on: January 09, 2019, 07:49:19 AM »
+1 for the above.

Also in general, people who think a particular altcoin will have more value than bitcoin due to some technical superiority is completely misunderstanding the "store of value" hypothesis. Gold is not valuable because it is the most useful/noble metal, but because of its history and collective consensus that has been built over time. Same with Bitcoin.


SharperDingaan

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #821 on: January 09, 2019, 09:29:50 AM »
Agreed re the technical, but primarily because you would need a supercomputer processing in the peta-flops/second to achieve it.
They do exist, but are tightly controlled.

Not so much re the financial. All you need is a small change leveraged many times.
Bitcoin is the only coin with both US futures and options contracts they allow a great deal of leverage, AND where you can be reasonably sure of collecting on your gains.
Potentially a very great deal of money, were you so inclined. 

SD

   

rkbabang

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #822 on: January 09, 2019, 10:28:38 AM »
Agreed re the technical, but primarily because you would need a supercomputer processing in the peta-flops/second to achieve it.
They do exist, but are tightly controlled.

Not so much re the financial. All you need is a small change leveraged many times.
Bitcoin is the only coin with both US futures and options contracts they allow a great deal of leverage, AND where you can be reasonably sure of collecting on your gains.
Potentially a very great deal of money, were you so inclined. 

SD

   

I'm not so sure.  If you find a way to steal a ton of gold, you have that gold and it is just as valuable as it alway was.  The same with Bitcoin, if you steal it (hack an exchange for example).  But if you acquire bitcoin with a 51% attack I don't see how you expect to cash out, because once the news hits that Bitcoin has been successfully attacked the price will plummet.  You will have spent many tens of millions of dollars on a supercomputer to steal a crypto currency that is now almost worthless because of how you stole it.  You would have to attack bitcoin, make your changes, and cash out before anyone notices.  I don't think that is possible.

wachtwoord

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #823 on: January 09, 2019, 11:12:01 AM »
Agreed re the technical, but primarily because you would need a supercomputer processing in the peta-flops/second to achieve it.
They do exist, but are tightly controlled.

What are you talking about man? None of these supercomputers are double sha256 asics and wouldn't make a dent in the hash rate. Complete hogwash.

When people talk about (peta)flops as a unit in the context of Bitcoin mining they don't know what they are talking about (on this topic at least).
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

rkbabang

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #824 on: January 09, 2019, 12:21:49 PM »
Agreed re the technical, but primarily because you would need a supercomputer processing in the peta-flops/second to achieve it.
They do exist, but are tightly controlled.

What are you talking about man? None of these supercomputers are double sha256 asics and wouldn't make a dent in the hash rate. Complete hogwash.

When people talk about (peta)flops as a unit in the context of Bitcoin mining they don't know what they are talking about (on this topic at least).

His larger point still holds that it is physically possible to spend $X to build a system that could 51% attack Bitcoin.  My point was that you would never be able to cash out and earn a return on your investment if you did that, because the $X you would have to spend is so high and the price of Bitcoin would plummet immediately upon your attack.

The danger is that a state actor does this not to profit, but to destroy Bitcoin.

wachtwoord

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #825 on: January 09, 2019, 12:37:20 PM »
Agreed re the technical, but primarily because you would need a supercomputer processing in the peta-flops/second to achieve it.
They do exist, but are tightly controlled.

What are you talking about man? None of these supercomputers are double sha256 asics and wouldn't make a dent in the hash rate. Complete hogwash.

When people talk about (peta)flops as a unit in the context of Bitcoin mining they don't know what they are talking about (on this topic at least).

His larger point still holds that it is physically possible to spend $X to build a system that could 51% attack Bitcoin.  My point was that you would never be able to cash out and earn a return on your investment if you did that, because the $X you would have to spend is so high and the price of Bitcoin would plummet immediately upon your attack.

The danger is that a state actor does this not to profit, but to destroy Bitcoin.

State actor can (malignantly, not profitably) attack Bitcoin although today the battle will be close and only the very top of the state actors stand a chance (if they were to collaborate they'd certainly win but that seems unlikely).

Mind though that the turn around time (attaining hash power) can be long and hard to keep quiet provoking counter reactions by both other state actors and groups of individuals, both in the increase in hash rate, sky rocketing of mining equipment and/or Bitcoin price.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

SharperDingaan

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #826 on: January 09, 2019, 03:18:35 PM »
Not to be too specific  .....

The hash rate will not change, but the complexity of the hash will skyrocket. And if your supercomputer now wins every hash (as only your CPU has the speed to do these complex calculations, and still be 'first') ... do you not now effectively have 100% control over the mining process? And does it not essentially enable the same outcome as a 51% attack?

A 'consortium' invests 100M in a attack on BTC. It also sells a collective 1B+ nominal of BTC futures & options on the Chicago exchanges today, & puts up an average 10% margin. Total investment of 200M. A week from now the attack launches; panic prevails, BTC falls 50%, & the 'consortium' buys back the futures at a 500M+ profit. Net gain of 300M.

And it WILL be a consortium, that reflects the heirarchy of the criminal establishment.
If it doesn't, the perpetrators very rapidly sleep with the fishes.

SD



wachtwoord

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #827 on: January 09, 2019, 03:27:58 PM »
Sorry to be so blunt but that's complete nonsense.

Or are you talking quantum computers? If so, that technology is no where near ready to attack Bitcoin and if they ever are all the S&P500 companies will be just as disrupted (and Bitcoin will adapt).
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

clutch

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #828 on: February 01, 2019, 06:23:56 PM »

rkbabang

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Re: Cryptocurrencies
« Reply #829 on: February 01, 2019, 09:40:20 PM »
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/troubled-bitcoin-trader-quadrigacx-takes-another-bizarre-turn

Bizarre situation at one of Canada's largest crypto exchanges

That's nuts. Don't hold your bitcoin at an exchange.