Author Topic: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?  (Read 84997 times)

DTEJD1997

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #440 on: December 01, 2017, 10:41:42 PM »
Hey all:

I think that there very well might be "shenanigans" going on with recent bitcoin price movement:

I know a couple of hapless dudes who have had their computers locked up with ransomware.  The hijackers were demanding payment in bitcoin.  One person paid it, the other did not...  That is certainly driving demand to some degree.  Is is 1% or 20% of bitcoin demand?  Hard to say....

I also wonder how much/how vulnerable bitcoin is frontrunning/promotion/churning.  That is, a group of scam artists buy up some bitcoin....then they start trading among themselves, always agreeing to buy it higher.  Thus, their false demand/trading is moving the price higher.  They agree to do this for a set period of time, drive the price up, then quickly liquidate.

I also know there is some demand from people in China.  They are trying to move their assets OUT of China.  China has capital controls to some degree.  Bitcoin is an effective way to get $$$$ out of China, without the government knowing.

How much other demand is coming from Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Syria, Yemen, other trouble spots?  Bitcoin can help people get capital out of these trouble spots.  How long though until there are other widely used crypto currencies?  Ethereum has also made a move...but what is to stop there from being 5, 10, 20, or even more crypto currencies in the near to intermediate future?  That will put downward pressure on Bitcoin, as there are more options to move capital.

Sure seems like a bubble and that nefarious activities might be going under the surface.  Crazy that bitcoin has moved as high as it has, as quickly as it has.  Got to wonder where this all ends up...


formthirteen

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #441 on: December 02, 2017, 12:40:11 AM »
The future is bright for cryptocurrency :P:

Quote
I am sending this message from the year 2025. Things are looking bleak here, and some of you will carry blood on your hands.
If you don't believe me, please move on, as I have no way of proving to you I'm really who I claim to be.
I don't want to waste any of your time, so I'm merely going to explain what happened.

On average, every year so far, the value of Bitcoin has increased by about a factor ten. From 0.1 dollar in 2010, to 1 dollar in 2011, to 10 dollar in 2012, to 100 dollar in 2013. From now on, there's a slight slowdown, as the value increased by a factor ten every two years, to 1,000 dollar in 2015, to 10,000 in 2017, 100,000 in 2019, and 1,000,000 in 2021. From here onwards, there's no good way of expressing its value in dollars, as the dollar is no longer used, nor is any central bank issued currency for that matter. There are two main forms of wealth in today's world. Land and cryptocurrency.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lfobc/i_am_a_timetraveler_from_the_future_here_to_beg/

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Transactions are irreversible and uncensorable as long as no single coalition of miners has more than 50% hash power and the transactions have an appropriate number of confirmations.

China has ~70% of the mining power.

My personal opinion is that cryptocurrency is designed in a way that makes it possible to create the biggest bubble of all time. The crazy thing is that if enough people believe in Bitcoin it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. History repeats itself.

I like to speculate that the biggest use for cryptocurrency today is:

1. Money laundering (Russia, China, etc).
2. Transferring money out of the country (Russia, China, etc). See for example Tether https://tether.to/.
3. Fundraising through ICOs. People will fund anything. If you had a startup idea before cryptocurrencies, good luck with getting any money. Today, just include "ICO" and "blockchain" in the press release and people will literally sell their house and give you their life savings to fund your luxurious lifestyle and crazy ideas.
4. Speculation that there is a greater fool. This includes believing Bitcoin is gold or a currency.
5. Stealing other people's money online through ransomware and hacking exchanges and computers.
6. Buying drugs and guns illegally.
7. Buying things.
8. Making a bet that, for example, Bitcoin will someday become a useful technology. Today it is not.
9. Destabilizing countries. This will become more popular, or might be the reason Bitcoin was created originally.

As you see, I am speculating that the usefulness of Bitcoin today is close to zero unless you are a criminal or you are raising funds. The only thing I would bet on is #8. About the future, I know nothing so I'm not buying any bitcoins.


clutch

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #442 on: December 02, 2017, 05:26:23 AM »

I like to speculate that the biggest use for cryptocurrency today is:

1. Money laundering (Russia, China, etc).
2. Transferring money out of the country (Russia, China, etc). See for example Tether https://tether.to/.
5. Stealing other people's money online through ransomware and hacking exchanges and computers.
6. Buying drugs and guns illegally.

As you see, I am speculating that the usefulness of Bitcoin today is close to zero unless you are a criminal or you are raising funds.

But can't you argue that these activities will always exist and hence the usefulness of cryptocurrency?

DooDiligence

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #443 on: December 03, 2017, 04:34:22 AM »

I like to speculate that the biggest use for cryptocurrency today is:

1. Money laundering (Russia, China, etc).
2. Transferring money out of the country (Russia, China, etc). See for example Tether https://tether.to/.
5. Stealing other people's money online through ransomware and hacking exchanges and computers.
6. Buying drugs and guns illegally.

As you see, I am speculating that the usefulness of Bitcoin today is close to zero unless you are a criminal or you are raising funds.

But can't you argue that these activities will always exist and hence the usefulness of cryptocurrency?

Makes it harder to "follow the money" in a criminal investigation?

Makes it easier to legitimize illegal gains?
abc | abev | aapl | bbh | brk.b | cri | cvs | dva | dis | ew | ffxdf | gpc | mo | nvo | sftby | vde

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wachtwoord

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #444 on: December 03, 2017, 07:27:38 AM »
Wealth protection is one of the most obvious use cases. You know that's big business (and completely legal) right?
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

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DeepSouth

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #445 on: December 04, 2017, 06:09:31 AM »
The IRS has at least 2 major problems
1) If you bought/sold crypto via a fund, you have a gain/loss - that in theory, could be taxed. If you bought the same cypto directly, you just bought 'money' and the FX gain/loss is not taxable. Same asset (crypto), different treatment.
2) Crypto exists only in cyberspace, there is no domicile, hence the tax rate is zero.

SD

LOL. I'm sure the IRS will be blown away by these arguments. This sounds like the morons who claim to be sovereign citizens in court before they are summarily taken to prison.

rkbabang

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #446 on: December 04, 2017, 06:42:14 AM »
The IRS has at least 2 major problems
1) If you bought/sold crypto via a fund, you have a gain/loss - that in theory, could be taxed. If you bought the same cypto directly, you just bought 'money' and the FX gain/loss is not taxable. Same asset (crypto), different treatment.
2) Crypto exists only in cyberspace, there is no domicile, hence the tax rate is zero.

SD

LOL. I'm sure the IRS will be blown away by these arguments. This sounds like the morons who claim to be sovereign citizens in court before they are summarily taken to prison.

Exactly.  Those people who think they have some argument based on the text of this law or that law are idiots.  It helps to look at the government as a gang of thugs who take what they want and are perfectly willing to use violence against you if they don't get it.   It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong.  They have the power to take what you have, and you don't have the power to stop them.  And most importantly,  99% of the people in society are sufficiently brainwashed to believe that the government is always right and you are a criminal if you say different.  So you will have zero help from anyone if you resist.  This is why I say it is worse than organized crime, because if you resist the mob at least your friends and neighbors won't look at you as the criminal.  Government is the mob with a child brainwashing system.

Long story short...pay your taxes.

wachtwoord

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #447 on: December 04, 2017, 10:41:04 AM »
I agree with the sentiment here. SD you seem to have an overly simplistic view on this and it seems you were not aware of specifics of the Canadian tax code. If you're going to try anything you better be damn sure you're factually correct and even then I doubt this will be accepted.

Be safe, these are not organizations you want to mess with ...
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

MRCR - FELP - ALS.TO - PDER - COMX - WWIB.OL -
 SODI - NVTR - ADDC - UPGI - HNFSA - IPO.TO - BONL - BWEL - GNW - NYRT - POE.V

zgrendi

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #448 on: December 07, 2017, 09:12:36 AM »
Tulipmania!


SnarkyPuppy

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #449 on: December 07, 2017, 09:46:55 AM »
Tulipmania!

Just curious, at what age and price point would this move from being tulips to being an actual store of value ala gold?   Ignore volatility, bc it seems obvious to me that at a certain market cap volatility will be similar to that offild today.