Author Topic: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?  (Read 114446 times)

clutch

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #440 on: December 02, 2017, 05:26:23 AM »

I like to speculate that the biggest use for cryptocurrency today is:

1. Money laundering (Russia, China, etc).
2. Transferring money out of the country (Russia, China, etc). See for example Tether https://tether.to/.
5. Stealing other people's money online through ransomware and hacking exchanges and computers.
6. Buying drugs and guns illegally.

As you see, I am speculating that the usefulness of Bitcoin today is close to zero unless you are a criminal or you are raising funds.

But can't you argue that these activities will always exist and hence the usefulness of cryptocurrency?


DooDiligence

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #441 on: December 03, 2017, 04:34:22 AM »

I like to speculate that the biggest use for cryptocurrency today is:

1. Money laundering (Russia, China, etc).
2. Transferring money out of the country (Russia, China, etc). See for example Tether https://tether.to/.
5. Stealing other people's money online through ransomware and hacking exchanges and computers.
6. Buying drugs and guns illegally.

As you see, I am speculating that the usefulness of Bitcoin today is close to zero unless you are a criminal or you are raising funds.

But can't you argue that these activities will always exist and hence the usefulness of cryptocurrency?

Makes it harder to "follow the money" in a criminal investigation?

Makes it easier to legitimize illegal gains?
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wachtwoord

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #442 on: December 03, 2017, 07:27:38 AM »
Wealth protection is one of the most obvious use cases. You know that's big business (and completely legal) right?
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

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DeepSouth

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #443 on: December 04, 2017, 06:09:31 AM »
The IRS has at least 2 major problems
1) If you bought/sold crypto via a fund, you have a gain/loss - that in theory, could be taxed. If you bought the same cypto directly, you just bought 'money' and the FX gain/loss is not taxable. Same asset (crypto), different treatment.
2) Crypto exists only in cyberspace, there is no domicile, hence the tax rate is zero.

SD

LOL. I'm sure the IRS will be blown away by these arguments. This sounds like the morons who claim to be sovereign citizens in court before they are summarily taken to prison.

rkbabang

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #444 on: December 04, 2017, 06:42:14 AM »
The IRS has at least 2 major problems
1) If you bought/sold crypto via a fund, you have a gain/loss - that in theory, could be taxed. If you bought the same cypto directly, you just bought 'money' and the FX gain/loss is not taxable. Same asset (crypto), different treatment.
2) Crypto exists only in cyberspace, there is no domicile, hence the tax rate is zero.

SD

LOL. I'm sure the IRS will be blown away by these arguments. This sounds like the morons who claim to be sovereign citizens in court before they are summarily taken to prison.

Exactly.  Those people who think they have some argument based on the text of this law or that law are idiots.  It helps to look at the government as a gang of thugs who take what they want and are perfectly willing to use violence against you if they don't get it.   It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong.  They have the power to take what you have, and you don't have the power to stop them.  And most importantly,  99% of the people in society are sufficiently brainwashed to believe that the government is always right and you are a criminal if you say different.  So you will have zero help from anyone if you resist.  This is why I say it is worse than organized crime, because if you resist the mob at least your friends and neighbors won't look at you as the criminal.  Government is the mob with a child brainwashing system.

Long story short...pay your taxes.

wachtwoord

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #445 on: December 04, 2017, 10:41:04 AM »
I agree with the sentiment here. SD you seem to have an overly simplistic view on this and it seems you were not aware of specifics of the Canadian tax code. If you're going to try anything you better be damn sure you're factually correct and even then I doubt this will be accepted.

Be safe, these are not organizations you want to mess with ...
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

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SnarkyPuppy

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #446 on: December 07, 2017, 09:46:55 AM »
Tulipmania!

Just curious, at what age and price point would this move from being tulips to being an actual store of value ala gold?   Ignore volatility, bc it seems obvious to me that at a certain market cap volatility will be similar to that offild today. 

rkbabang

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #447 on: December 07, 2017, 09:57:30 AM »
Tulipmania!

Just curious, at what age and price point would this move from being tulips to being an actual store of value ala gold?   Ignore volatility, bc it seems obvious to me that at a certain market cap volatility will be similar to that offild today. 

This was written in April/2013:  ( https://fee.org/articles/bitcoin-for-beginners/ )

"As of this writing, a Bitcoin is trading for $88.249.  Just three years ago, it hovered at $0.14. Many people look at the current market and think, surely this is a speculative bubble. That could be true, but it might not be. People are exchanging an unstable, fiat paper for something with a real title that cannot be duplicated. Everyone knows precisely how many Bitcoins exist at any time. Anyone can observe the transactions taking place in real time. A Bitcoinís price can go up and down, and thatís fine, but there is no real speculation going on here that is endogenous to the Bitcoin market itself.  Is it a pyramid scheme? The defining mark of a pyramid scheme is that more than one person has an equal claim on the same money or good. This is physically impossible with Bitcoin. The way the program is set up, it is a strict property rights regime with no exceptions."

wachtwoord

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #448 on: December 07, 2017, 02:20:26 PM »
Probably gold back in ancient times (but obviously at a delayed speed due to a much lower population and absense of world wide instant communication network.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

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 SODI - NVTR - ADDC - UPGI - HNFSA - IPO.TO - BONL - BWEL - GNW - NYRT - POE.V

rkbabang

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Re: Do you think Bitcoin is a safe store of value?
« Reply #449 on: December 07, 2017, 03:17:48 PM »
Tulipmania!

Just curious, at what age and price point would this move from being tulips to being an actual store of value ala gold?   Ignore volatility, bc it seems obvious to me that at a certain market cap volatility will be similar to that offild today. 

This was written in April/2013:  ( https://fee.org/articles/bitcoin-for-beginners/ )

"As of this writing, a Bitcoin is trading for $88.249.  Just three years ago, it hovered at $0.14. Many people look at the current market and think, surely this is a speculative bubble. That could be true, but it might not be. People are exchanging an unstable, fiat paper for something with a real title that cannot be duplicated. Everyone knows precisely how many Bitcoins exist at any time. Anyone can observe the transactions taking place in real time. A Bitcoinís price can go up and down, and thatís fine, but there is no real speculation going on here that is endogenous to the Bitcoin market itself.  Is it a pyramid scheme? The defining mark of a pyramid scheme is that more than one person has an equal claim on the same money or good. This is physically impossible with Bitcoin. The way the program is set up, it is a strict property rights regime with no exceptions."


Do you believe that this parabolic spike up is driven by the world suddenly realizing the fundamental value of bitcoin?  What is that fundamental value?  Every other knucklehead on the planet is picking up a little bc right now to play the rush.  They have no clue how the technology works or what its intrinsic value is. I'm not saying bc is valueless, its actually has some neat uses.  So do tulip bulbs, they can grow lovely flowers. 

Please show me an example of an asset that has spiked in value like this that wasn't a bubble.



People all over the world (rich and poor, dumb and smart, educated and ignorant) use the USD every day. Do you think 1 in 10 has a deep understanding of the Federal Reserve system and how it works?

Even if Bitcoin replaces all money on Earth the average person wonít understand the technology behind it anymore than they have a deep understanding of how the cellphone in their pocket works.