Author Topic: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.  (Read 2589105 times)

DRValue

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9850 on: May 16, 2018, 09:31:08 AM »
My computer screen and headphones shed tears listening to the argument and reading the draft of the arguments.

Judge comments that the Third amendment effectively nationalized the companies. He also questions "So what value is left for shareholders after the Third amendment?". Defense argues that the companies were already worthless at the time of the third amendment...Judge comments "its worth nothing then, and its worth nothing now - zero then, zero now...zero in the future"..."they are investors and they are crazy enough to keep doing that..."

Judge "Could you give me a scenario where there could be value (for the shareholders) under the third amendment?"...@31 minutes...listen to the response for what it's worth

The defence really infuriates me at times and the judges even more so. Normally goes something like this:

"Whats left for shareholders?"
"your honor, you have to remember the tax payers put up x billion dollars"

And?? How does that impact whats left for shareholders?
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Sunrider

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9851 on: May 16, 2018, 09:41:30 AM »
My computer screen and headphones shed tears listening to the argument and reading the draft of the arguments.

Judge comments that the Third amendment effectively nationalized the companies. He also questions "So what value is left for shareholders after the Third amendment?". Defense argues that the companies were already worthless at the time of the third amendment...Judge comments "its worth nothing then, and its worth nothing now - zero then, zero now...zero in the future"..."they are investors and they are crazy enough to keep doing that..."

Judge "Could you give me a scenario where there could be value (for the shareholders) under the third amendment?"...@31 minutes...listen to the response for what it's worth

The defence really infuriates me at times and the judges even more so. Normally goes something like this:

"Whats left for shareholders?"
"your honor, you have to remember the tax payers put up x billion dollars"

And?? How does that impact whats left for shareholders?

What do you mean? That’s standard practice in Donald times - his classic response to something he doesn’t like ... “yeah but what about Hilary/bad person x doing x?”(even if completely unrelated :)

rros

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9852 on: May 16, 2018, 09:56:29 AM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

cherzeca

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9853 on: May 16, 2018, 10:20:00 AM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

except i didnt see the judge concerned with nationalization buying it

HalfMeasure

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9854 on: May 16, 2018, 11:03:08 AM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

except i didnt see the judge concerned with nationalization buying it

And wouldn't that argument be analogous to something like: "I didn't steal your property, I just took it but I could return it under some nebulous circumstances thus absolving me of theft".

cherzeca

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9855 on: May 16, 2018, 11:12:32 AM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

except i didnt see the judge concerned with nationalization buying it

And wouldn't that argument be analogous to something like: "I didn't steal your property, I just took it but I could return it under some nebulous circumstances thus absolving me of theft".

as i recall this was from ms wright, treasury counsel, who was hardly inspiring confidence.  it was a very weak response, which only added to her lack of credibility imo

rros

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9856 on: May 16, 2018, 11:20:31 AM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

except i didnt see the judge concerned with nationalization buying it

And wouldn't that argument be analogous to something like: "I didn't steal your property, I just took it but I could return it under some nebulous circumstances thus absolving me of theft".

as i recall this was from ms wright, treasury counsel, who was hardly inspiring confidence.  it was a very weak response, which only added to her lack of credibility imo
You are all correct. But we better be lucky.

undervalued

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9857 on: May 16, 2018, 11:28:00 AM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

except i didnt see the judge concerned with nationalization buying it

And wouldn't that argument be analogous to something like: "I didn't steal your property, I just took it but I could return it under some nebulous circumstances thus absolving me of theft".

as i recall this was from ms wright, treasury counsel, who was hardly inspiring confidence.  it was a very weak response, which only added to her lack of credibility imo
You are all correct. But we better be lucky.

Does anyone know why the FHFA and Treasure are still fighting hard in these courts if they're friendly to shareholders in their future plans? Isn't a court win a good windfall for Mnuchin's shareholder friendly plan? Why aren't they weakening their stances?
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers

blackcoffee

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9858 on: May 16, 2018, 01:24:11 PM »
Treasury's argument that a recovery for shareholders is possible (unknown and un-timed) is a straight arrow to the heart of the nationalization argument by plaintiff, so it is worrisome. Not to mention an acceptable delay strategy, as a recovery might be possible... within the next 1000 years.

except i didnt see the judge concerned with nationalization buying it

And wouldn't that argument be analogous to something like: "I didn't steal your property, I just took it but I could return it under some nebulous circumstances thus absolving me of theft".

as i recall this was from ms wright, treasury counsel, who was hardly inspiring confidence.  it was a very weak response, which only added to her lack of credibility imo
You are all correct. But we better be lucky.

Does anyone know why the FHFA and Treasure are still fighting hard in these courts if they're friendly to shareholders in their future plans? Isn't a court win a good windfall for Mnuchin's shareholder friendly plan? Why aren't they weakening their stances?

yes because there is no real difference between the 2 major political parties when it comes to banks. They are captured by them thanks to hanky p and the bailouts.
that's the short answer. Trump isn't the savior here only the courts and they're all punting and delaying. Rampant corruption is the answer you're looking for and a lack of consequences for said corruption.

orthopa

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Re: FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.
« Reply #9859 on: May 16, 2018, 05:29:24 PM »
Just had to throw my $.02 in which is broadly inline with others. Looks like all we have to do is just sit and wait huh?  So we need either a change to the 3rd amendment, receivership(unlikely due to mnuchins comments) or some other congress and a new path forward.

A lot of maybes but maybe this is Stevies' thought all along, wait till Hensarling, Corker out and work with new congress after all.

Does the fact that the stock still trade mean it will see value eventually? She mentions this as a reason?