Author Topic: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30  (Read 25886 times)

CorpRaider

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 11:22:44 AM »
I get what you're saying.  Some would say he's really "financially independent" as opposed to retired, because he generates passive income that far outstrips his annual spending, even backing out the $400K (which is a recent phenomenon, btw).  He could probably never post new content again and would still generate substantial income for years to come. 

But I think most would say he retired early from his career to go manage his personal investments (mostly real estate at the time) and then turned a hobby/evangelism (about stoicism and limiting consumption and the attendant impact on the environment disguised as a personal finance blog) into a huge business on accident.  He really doesn't even post all that often now, maybe once every month or two.



Liberty

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2016, 08:05:11 AM »
New post by MMM on why he bought an electric car and his experience so far:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/10/04/so-i-bought-an-electric-car/

It's a good read. Crazy how cheap he got it.
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Liberty

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2016, 08:17:57 AM »
Mr. Money Mustache speech at WDS 2016 (26 minutes):

https://vimeo.com/183016901
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Jurgis

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2016, 10:29:27 AM »
I'll ask lazy question (i.e. I did not search on MMM blog): How does he deal with medical costs? I am talking US medical costs, not Canadian/UK/other-somewhat-socialist-countries. Isn't the costs something like ~$10K a year per person for unemployed? OK, so you can non-insure while you are young and healthy, but what you gonna do if when you are old and need long term care which is something like $30-60K a year?

It's a serious question, because IMO this is the biggest hurdle to retire in US. Theoretically, assuming no medical costs, I could retire tomorrow. With medical costs, you may need something like $1M in current dollars for 30+ years of potentially high medical bills. Yeah, at some point you get Medicare, but that doesn't cover everything AFAIK. (Dirty calc: $500K * 3% = 15K per year for medical, I am taking 3% to avoid drawdowns, any good quality long term care will be way above 15K a year, so $1M instead of 500k?).

Any comments, insights, ideas welcome. I already know the suggestion to move to a country with lower medical costs.  8)
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oddballstocks

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2016, 11:44:42 AM »
I'll ask lazy question (i.e. I did not search on MMM blog): How does he deal with medical costs? I am talking US medical costs, not Canadian/UK/other-somewhat-socialist-countries. Isn't the costs something like ~$10K a year per person for unemployed? OK, so you can non-insure while you are young and healthy, but what you gonna do if when you are old and need long term care which is something like $30-60K a year?

It's a serious question, because IMO this is the biggest hurdle to retire in US. Theoretically, assuming no medical costs, I could retire tomorrow. With medical costs, you may need something like $1M in current dollars for 30+ years of potentially high medical bills. Yeah, at some point you get Medicare, but that doesn't cover everything AFAIK. (Dirty calc: $500K * 3% = 15K per year for medical, I am taking 3% to avoid drawdowns, any good quality long term care will be way above 15K a year, so $1M instead of 500k?).

Any comments, insights, ideas welcome. I already know the suggestion to move to a country with lower medical costs.  8)

This is what I've always wondered as well.  Everytime I've seen it discussed there is a lot of hand waving with things like "stay healthy" and "eat right" as if those things will prevent my boys from jumping off their bunk beds and ending up in the ER.

The retire early thing assumes a person who is healthy and never gets sick.  It never assumes an actual family as if people with kids might want to retire one day, or that not everyone is 100% healthy all the time.
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oddballstocks

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2016, 11:50:09 AM »
Replying to myself: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/11/01/our-new-237-per-month-health-insurance-plan/

Looks like he was paying $237/mo in 2012 for a $20k family deductible plan with a max of $32k out of pocket.  Given health insurance increases in the past four years it's probably closer to $500/mo for this same plan.

On his forum people keep asking how they can get a plan like his, comparable plans run $700/mo back in 2014.  Seems like he hasn't revisited the issue since 2012.  In the post he says they skated by with his wife working part time.

This is the missing link, affordable health insurance isn't really available if you're trying to retire early.  I know most on this site are in Canada and Europe where it's different.  But in the US it's not practical unless you have a substantial bankroll for health care alone.
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oddballstocks

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2016, 12:09:38 PM »
For completeness on this.

Went to healthcare.gov and entered in my family stats.  I make too much to get any subsidies, although interestingly enough they recommend that I enroll my kids in the state's medicare program.  Interesting way of shifting costs.

Cheapest plan is $400/mo with a $14k out of pocket max.  So we're talking about $1500/mo for health care.  Maybe you get a few years where it's cheaper, but I'd expect to budget the full amount.

It's crazy what things cost.  One of my sons had a camera put down his throat to examine some vocal nodules, cost was $14k, insurance picked up everything but about $1500.  The "original" cost was $60k that was knocked down to $14k due to insurance company discounts.  So one procedure like that which took about an hour and you've blown your deductible.

I could rant on this for a while, but this is it for now.  Bottom line, it's extremely expensive to not be under employer health insurance in the US.  Some can do it, they're usually young, and hit the genetic lottery and perfectly healthy.  You can roll the dice and see where they land, but I've had a few encounters where if healthcare wasn't available a family member wouldn't be living right now.

The costs are terrible.  I'm trying to psych myself up to pay $5k for a birth in early 2017.  I will probably not even look at the bill and blindly pay.  Looking at these bills is infuriating.  They stick an IV in you and suddenly there's a $200 drug in there you didn't know about.  Or the $37 Advil pills, or how the doctor and hospital double charge you for everything.  The hospital charges $200 for an xray because it took place in their building, then the doctor charges $200 for the xray because they actually did the xray.  Such a scam.  But there's nothing that can be done unfortunately.
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CorpRaider

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2016, 12:33:32 PM »
Can you think of nothing?  Truly?

Jurgis

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2016, 12:39:02 PM »
Thanks oddball.

Yeah, I think his "$237/mo in 2012 for a $20k family deductible plan with a max of $32k out of pocket" is presented overoptimistically. Like you said, it probably costs way more now. And someone commented on his site that it might not cover drugs and some other things.

Also his post doesn't cover health deterioration and premium increases as you age (offset by Medicare from 65, but not for things that Medicare doesn't cover).

In short, I agree with you:

affordable health insurance isn't really available if you're trying to retire early.  I know most on this site are in Canada and Europe where it's different.  But in the US it's not practical unless you have a substantial bankroll for health care alone.
"Before you can be rich, you must be poor." - Nef Anyo
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valcont

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Re: Meet Mr Money Mustache who retired at the age 30
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2016, 12:40:00 PM »
For completeness on this.

Went to healthcare.gov and entered in my family stats.  I make too much to get any subsidies, although interestingly enough they recommend that I enroll my kids in the state's medicare program.  Interesting way of shifting costs.

Cheapest plan is $400/mo with a $14k out of pocket max.  So we're talking about $1500/mo for health care.  Maybe you get a few years where it's cheaper, but I'd expect to budget the full amount.

It's crazy what things cost.  One of my sons had a camera put down his throat to examine some vocal nodules, cost was $14k, insurance picked up everything but about $1500.  The "original" cost was $60k that was knocked down to $14k due to insurance company discounts.  So one procedure like that which took about an hour and you've blown your deductible.

I could rant on this for a while, but this is it for now.  Bottom line, it's extremely expensive to not be under employer health insurance in the US.  Some can do it, they're usually young, and hit the genetic lottery and perfectly healthy.  You can roll the dice and see where they land, but I've had a few encounters where if healthcare wasn't available a family member wouldn't be living right now.

The costs are terrible.  I'm trying to psych myself up to pay $5k for a birth in early 2017.  I will probably not even look at the bill and blindly pay.  Looking at these bills is infuriating.  They stick an IV in you and suddenly there's a $200 drug in there you didn't know about.  Or the $37 Advil pills, or how the doctor and hospital double charge you for everything.  The hospital charges $200 for an xray because it took place in their building, then the doctor charges $200 for the xray because they actually did the xray.  Such a scam.  But there's nothing that can be done unfortunately.

Our daughter was born this summer and we are still getting all the medical bills. I have stopped counting but the last estimate was $20K. And this was a natural birth. My wife's insurance paid the bulk of it but the charges makes me mad. $1000/per night for a hospital stay. I am sorry , I have stayed in $1000/night hotels and this ain't one. And separate charges for the same service from multiple LLCs. As a business owner I can see the scam they are pulling but this is a cartel now and its hard to get rid of it.

That's why I thought single payer was a much better solution than the crap we had now. Everyone gets reasonable health care access. A specialized care may get worse but I think we will save on the unnecessary surgeries also. Also limit the patent duration and all these dirty tricks like mashup,alternate delivery and purification.

Another scam is the drug industry/doctor cartel. Years ago I dated this girl who was a medical rep. She had zero idea about what she was selling but damn she looked really good. Her job was mainly to take these doctors out on dinner. All these married geeks would fawn over her and then the account rep would "drop by" and talk business.