Author Topic: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer  (Read 10933 times)

KJP

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2018, 11:26:21 AM »

Why are those poorer people buying junk food that will kill them sooner? I'll let you solve that. 

This is an area of significant current research.  Here, for example, are recent thoughts from someone researching this question:  http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-singh-food-deserts-nutritional-disparities-20180207-story.html

Lazy and stupid don't appear to be the reasons.  Instead, the reasons appear to be deeper and, in my view, profoundly sad.  At the end of the day, I think the poor are essentially the same as everyone else -- same hopes, same dreams, same love for their children, same fallibilities -- they just have a lot less money.  If I was working two minimum wage jobs while taking care of a few kids, and the only respite I could find was a bit of nicotine, maybe I'd smoke too.



jmp8822

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2018, 11:43:58 AM »

Why are those poorer people buying junk food that will kill them sooner? I'll let you solve that. 

This is an area of significant current research.  Here, for example, are recent thoughts from someone researching this question:  http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-singh-food-deserts-nutritional-disparities-20180207-story.html

Lazy and stupid don't appear to be the reasons.  Instead, the reasons appear to be deeper and, in my view, profoundly sad.  At the end of the day, I think the poor are essentially the same as everyone else -- same hopes, same dreams, same love for their children, same fallibilities -- they just have a lot less money.  If I was working two minimum wage jobs while taking care of a few kids, and the only respite I could find was a bit of nicotine, maybe I'd smoke too.

The store I shop at in the poor part of town has plenty of healthy, fresh food. Yet, many $200 grocery bills of Gatorade, Ruffles, Krispy Kremes, and Totino's. Perhaps the 'food deserts' are part of a brand new concept called supply and demand. Maybe if you opened a well-stocked farmer's market in poor parts of town it would simply not get enough customers. Seriously, that author seriously believes there isn't one entrepreneur willing to make a fortune opening a healthy store in a poor part of town? BS meter going off.  Victim mentality runs deep.

KJP

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2018, 12:08:04 PM »

Why are those poorer people buying junk food that will kill them sooner? I'll let you solve that. 

This is an area of significant current research.  Here, for example, are recent thoughts from someone researching this question:  http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-singh-food-deserts-nutritional-disparities-20180207-story.html

Lazy and stupid don't appear to be the reasons.  Instead, the reasons appear to be deeper and, in my view, profoundly sad.  At the end of the day, I think the poor are essentially the same as everyone else -- same hopes, same dreams, same love for their children, same fallibilities -- they just have a lot less money.  If I was working two minimum wage jobs while taking care of a few kids, and the only respite I could find was a bit of nicotine, maybe I'd smoke too.

The store I shop at in the poor part of town has plenty of healthy, fresh food. Yet, many $200 grocery bills of Gatorade, Ruffles, Krispy Kremes, and Totino's. Perhaps the 'food deserts' are part of a brand new concept called supply and demand. Maybe if you opened a well-stocked farmer's market in poor parts of town it would simply not get enough customers. Seriously, that author seriously believes there isn't one entrepreneur willing to make a fortune opening a healthy store in a poor part of town? BS meter going off.  Victim mentality runs deep.

I think we read different articles.  The author is saying that "food deserts" are NOT the whole story.

Cigarbutt

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2018, 01:19:25 PM »
The key variables are cost and coverage.

Invariably, this debate will put to the fore the clash between personal responsibility and social solidarity. The above comments just show how hard it would be to achieve a satisfactory consensus on coverage and "shared" costs.

At a certain point, limited or unaffordable access to healthcare in our increasingly unequal world may eventually prove to be detrimental.

Otto von Bismark is often recognized as the father of state socialism. However, he did not promote reforms out of idealism. He simply wanted to maintain the balance of power. Call it what you want but make it affordable.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/bismarck-tried-end-socialisms-grip-offering-government-healthcare-180964064/


KJP

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2018, 01:55:03 PM »
The key variables are cost and coverage.

Invariably, this debate will put to the fore the clash between personal responsibility and social solidarity. The above comments just show how hard it would be to achieve a satisfactory consensus on coverage and "shared" costs.

At a certain point, limited or unaffordable access to healthcare in our increasingly unequal world may eventually prove to be detrimental.

Otto von Bismark is often recognized as the father of state socialism. However, he did not promote reforms out of idealism. He simply wanted to maintain the balance of power. Call it what you want but make it affordable.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/bismarck-tried-end-socialisms-grip-offering-government-healthcare-180964064/

Is it really true that the US must make these very hard choices?  Or is there something fundamentally dysfunctional about our healthcare system that, if addressed, would allow an essentially "free lunch" of more access, better outcomes and less cost?

Studies like this suggest there's something fundamentally wrong with what we're doing:  https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671  [only a summary freely available]  How is it possible that we spend at least 550 bps more of GDP and get worse outcomes and less coverage?  Studies like this one are also why it baffles me that people think expanding coverage is "too expensive"?  It seems clear to me that it's whatever we're doing now that's "too expensive". 

Imagine all the things we could do if we could free up 5.5% (or more) of GDP ...

rb

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2018, 02:11:51 PM »
Well you wouldn't really free up 5.5% of GDP. Mostly you'll just reallocate it. I think maybe at most you create 2% of GDP (finger in the air measurement). But that's still nothing to sneeze at.

KJP

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2018, 02:16:52 PM »
How do you get to only 2%?  What is the reallocation you're talking about?  I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just not sure what you are referring to.

And your 2% is with near universal coverage, correct?

rb

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2018, 02:20:39 PM »
Yea. By the way just so I'm clear. What I'm saying is not that you can't lower HC costs by 5.5% of GDP. If think you can and probably even more than that.

What I'm saying is that if you lower HC costs by 5.5% of GDP you won't also get a 5.5% GDP pop on top of it. The GDP pop would most likely be around 2%.

KJP

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Re: Munger Says We Will Have Single Payer
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2018, 02:26:45 PM »
I see.  I wasn't counting any additional pop.  Just the re-allocation alone would be quite useful.

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