Author Topic: Rich A-hole Syndrome  (Read 3331 times)

Jurgis

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2019, 08:36:59 PM »
Since we are using poetic language:

When driving, everyone driving faster than you (and cutting you off) is an a-hole. And everyone driving slower than you (and who you cut off) is a moron.
"Before you can be rich, you must be poor." - Nef Anyo
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Read the Footnotes

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2019, 05:04:35 AM »
I see many PAHs and MAHs in addition to RAHs when I drive (P= poor, M= middle class). I think AH-ness is a normal probability distribution independent of wealth. People notice RAHs more because they drive nicer cars in general. Also one cannot ignore the sub-conscious envy/jealousy factor at work. RAH may bother people more than a MAH or PAH.

Poor and middle class assholes are easier to dismiss. Rich assholes live rent free in your head because jealousy is also involved.

This is why people remember the Benz that cuts them off when merging lanes, but not the 1989 Toyota Corolla.

Assholes are probably evenly distributed amongst the wealth groups, as are (I would wager) most personality characteristics.

On the one hand, I could probably point you to the original article and point out that the study in question actually took steps to eliminate bias and had some amount of rigor to eliminate an availability bias such as you are suggesting (the Benz illicit jealousy, therefore that memory is more available when trying to recall bad behavior). I was able to quickly find the original study, confirm that they did take several steps to eliminate bias and randomize the study. Further they conducted multiple similar experiments (a failing to yield to pedestrians at a stop sign experiment and a cutting other motorists off at an intersection experiment).

On the other hand, there are several easy ways I can come up with to support your argument. First and foremost, is the old adage that correlation is not causality. Maybe instead of the drivers of luxury cars being at fault, it's the cars themselves:
  • Luxury cars might be more isolating and therefore make a driver more likely to ignore a pedestrian or another driver.
  • Maybe luxury cars tend to have higher performance and therefore make aggressive driving more available to the driver.
  • Driving a luxury car is an action not a personality trait, so what should any correlation tell us about the driver instead of the car?
  • I regularly drive a car that the experimenters might classify as a beater. I also drive a car they likely would classify as luxury. Does my personality vary from day to day depending on which car I'm driving?
  • I feel other drivers and pedestrians react differently depending on which car I am driving. How does that impact the behavior of luxury car drivers?

Another peculiar aspect of the study is that when it was first conducted, Toyota Priuses were still new, were still a way of value signaling and were still selling at way above list price. Rather appropriately, Priuses were lumped in with luxury cars, but that is actually a bit of a confounding factor. Other studies have attempted to show that Prius owners felt pius for owning a eco-friendly car and subconsciously engaged in a compensating effect which basically returned them to an equilibrium closer to the norm. Here are two examples of what I mean.

Prius drivers might have felt more pius for driving a Prius and therefore felt comfortable engaging in other less socially acceptable behaviors such as rude or aggressive driving. There was also a sense at the time that Prius drivers were speeding more than other drivers and that prompted studies to test that belief. Sure enough the studies showed that Prius drivers were speeding more than other drivers. The studies postulated that drivers felt that not only were they pius enough to excuse a little bit of speeding, but the cars were so energy efficient that it was ok to reduce that efficiency by speeding and getting lower gas mileage at a higher average speed. Including these pius Prius drivers among the luxury cars might throw off the results.

Here's a blog post that points out some of the problems with these studies.

https://www.exploringtheproblemspace.com/new-blog/2018/8/30/social-scientists-and-political-bias-the-case-of-rich-people-and-their-driving-habits

Finally, to make an appeal to authority, I give you South Park's thoughts on the subject:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6f77ol

DooDiligence

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2019, 05:50:25 AM »
Since we are using poetic language:

When driving, everyone driving faster than you (and cutting you off) is an a-hole. And everyone driving slower than you (and who you cut off) is a moron.

Wise observation.

I drive relatively slow in comparison to other traffic.

It's a holdover from a DUI (over a decade ago) & me driving on a suspended license & not wanting to get pulled over.

I noticed that I was a lot calmer in traffic as a result, so it stuck with me.

I get tailgated a LOT, even though I'm usually doing 3 to 5 mph over the speed limit.

Many times, the tailgater will furiously whip around me & the vast majority of the time I pull up behind or beside them at the next traffic light.

I'm an asshole,
I'm an asshole,
yes, yes
I'm an asshole,
I'm an asshole,
that's right.

See you at the next light ;D

--

I see your Zappa and raise you Team America: World Police

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Team_America:_World_Police#Dicks,_Pussies,_Assholes_Speech

Obviously some crude language but it gets the point across. Maybe?  ;D

I fold.

:-X
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:52:54 AM by DooDiligence »
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SharperDingaan

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2019, 06:49:08 AM »
Nice Zappa reference.

A-holes, can only be A-holes, as long as no one changes the game on them.
Years ago there used to be a company named 'Rent-A-Wreck' that would rent you a fully MOT (ministry of transport) road-tested banger for dirt-cheap. Good engine, tires, windscreen wipers, heater, and brakes - but multi-coloured, and very scratched up, body panels and seats. Dirt cheap to rent as it was both butt-ugly, and only required the bare minimum of insurance. Ideal student car for moving your stuff.

Lots of very expensive flashy cars at intersections - but they would all get very nervous, when I pulled up besides them with mm of 'clearance' to spare And none too happy with my lowering the 'social' value of the surrounding marquis sheet metal !! I found lots of A-holes, but they were all scared sh1tless of scratching up their metal, and appearing remotely associated!. Busy intersections had a way of rapidly giving me lots of space as I pulled up.

Amusingly, a good neighbour and I drove off everyday at about the same time, and he'd toss me a six-pack every other week or so.
His driver had discovered that if they followed me, I'd clear most of the obstructions out of the way - and that their trip would be about 10-15 minutes faster. Every time.

Sadly, 'Rent-A-Wreck' is no more, but it was great fun while it lasted ... and very instructive.
There's only room for A-hole #1!

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Saluki

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2019, 08:38:16 AM »
I was at the Chatuchak market in Bangkok & had stopped in a stall to buy some wind chimes.
They were nice little ceramic designs & came wrapped in paper with handwritten Thai messages.

Simple & elegant gifts.

There was a sign stating the price for one, with a discount for three.

I was getting a couple of dozen & the guy tried to give a bigger discount but I politely refused because they were already cheap as hell.
Thai merchants often offer discounts without even being asked, if you're kind & are buying in quantity or if they recognize you from before.

While the guy was bagging up my chimes, a woman stopped in & was all irate that she didn't get immediate attention.
Then she proceeded to hammer the guy over the purchase of one chime.

I told her she was chiseling the guy for the equivalent of about $0.25 & she acted like I was a liar.

I've seen this over & over, especially with hotel receptionists where the rich "farang" isn't getting their way & resorts to being a twat.

These are the times we live in & it's probably been the same throughout history with relatively wealthy individuals.

I'd be willing to bet these types are non-existent on cobf.

It was a weird experience for me haggling in Bangkok.  For something like a T-shirt that was $6-8, it was already cheaper than what I would pay at home, but it's expected that you haggle. So I would ask for a better price and the guy would give me a small discount and I would quickly cave in and we both feel good about it.  A thai friend said I should take him with me because he could get better prices on souvenirs, but that extra dollar or two I wouldn't even notice and although it won't matter to me, in a poor country it's a very big deal, so why do it? One of those vendors did math in his head better than me (and definitely works harder than me), so what separates us other than I was lucky enough to have parents that emigrated to a rich country?

I bought a couple of handmade monk bowls there, made by brazing pieces of metal together over a flame, in a country where it's 95 degrees outside.  They were pricey for souvenirs, but it's hard work in a poor country to do that kind of stuff so I don't get a good feeling when I see tourists trying to beat them up on price about it. 

 
If it's important, do it every day. If it's not important, don't do it at all.  -Dan Gable

DooDiligence

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2019, 01:03:54 PM »
I was at the Chatuchak market in Bangkok & had stopped in a stall to buy some wind chimes.
They were nice little ceramic designs & came wrapped in paper with handwritten Thai messages.

Simple & elegant gifts.

There was a sign stating the price for one, with a discount for three.

I was getting a couple of dozen & the guy tried to give a bigger discount but I politely refused because they were already cheap as hell.
Thai merchants often offer discounts without even being asked, if you're kind & are buying in quantity or if they recognize you from before.

While the guy was bagging up my chimes, a woman stopped in & was all irate that she didn't get immediate attention.
Then she proceeded to hammer the guy over the purchase of one chime.

I told her she was chiseling the guy for the equivalent of about $0.25 & she acted like I was a liar.

I've seen this over & over, especially with hotel receptionists where the rich "farang" isn't getting their way & resorts to being a twat.

These are the times we live in & it's probably been the same throughout history with relatively wealthy individuals.

I'd be willing to bet these types are non-existent on cobf.

It was a weird experience for me haggling in Bangkok.  For something like a T-shirt that was $6-8, it was already cheaper than what I would pay at home, but it's expected that you haggle. So I would ask for a better price and the guy would give me a small discount and I would quickly cave in and we both feel good about it.  A thai friend said I should take him with me because he could get better prices on souvenirs, but that extra dollar or two I wouldn't even notice and although it won't matter to me, in a poor country it's a very big deal, so why do it? One of those vendors did math in his head better than me (and definitely works harder than me), so what separates us other than I was lucky enough to have parents that emigrated to a rich country?

I bought a couple of handmade monk bowls there, made by brazing pieces of metal together over a flame, in a country where it's 95 degrees outside.  They were pricey for souvenirs, but it's hard work in a poor country to do that kind of stuff so I don't get a good feeling when I see tourists trying to beat them up on price about it.

I found that the Indian guys in Thailand would start with a ridiculously high price & bargain hard all the way to the close.

The Thai guys usually cut to the chase very quickly.

Have you been recently & is it still as nice as before all the red shirt, yellow shirt stuff?

I haven't been in a decade & used to eat a lot of street food.
I never haggled with street vendors as the price seemed super cheap for Thom Yum, etc.

Then I met some Thai women & started rolling around town with them & suddenly I could feed
3 for not much more than 1.

I continued to pay Farang prices if dining alone, rather than try & hammer a guy slaving
over a hot brazier in what felt like an equally hot climate.

I recommend eating close to a police station for the best food.

Bangkok is one of the few mega cities that I've ever really liked.
The people are wonderful.
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Spekulatius

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2019, 04:37:14 PM »

I haven't been in a decade & used to eat a lot of street food.
I never haggled with street vendors as the price seemed super cheap for Thom Yum, etc.

Then I met some Thai women & started rolling around town with them & suddenly I could feed
3 for not much more than 1.

I continued to pay Farang prices if dining alone, rather than try & hammer a guy slaving
over a hot brazier in what felt like an equally hot climate.


I donít think Thai people haggle about the price of street food. The reason you could feed 3 locals for the price of one farang alone is that they raised the prices for you.
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DooDiligence

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2019, 07:24:44 PM »

I haven't been in a decade & used to eat a lot of street food.
I never haggled with street vendors as the price seemed super cheap for Thom Yum, etc.

Then I met some Thai women & started rolling around town with them & suddenly I could feed
3 for not much more than 1.

I continued to pay Farang prices if dining alone, rather than try & hammer a guy slaving
over a hot brazier in what felt like an equally hot climate.


I donít think Thai people haggle about the price of street food. The reason you could feed 3 locals for the price of one farang alone is that they raised the prices for you.

I never minded paying the Farang tax because the food was usually very good.

If you eat at a regular restaurant, the menu price is the same for everyone.

Bangkok has a lot of great Indian restaurants as well.

One notable place with a huge selection of outdoor food vendors is the Suan Lum night bazaar, near Lumpini stadium.

You buy tickets & trade them for food at the various stalls.

They always had big musical stage shows going on & if it started raining,
there was a huge cover that would roll over the seating area.

I kind of miss the smells & sounds.
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DooDiligence

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Re: Rich A-hole Syndrome
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2019, 08:14:23 AM »
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