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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Graham Osborn on March 20, 2018, 05:11:34 PM

Title: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Graham Osborn on March 20, 2018, 05:11:34 PM
Has anyone else noticed how all the articles except the most recent are now locked behind the PRO subscription?  At first I thought it was some kind of sick joke, but it literally seems they are now expecting everyone to pay $75/ mo for access to virtually all their articles.

I'm just curious, is there anyone out there who is going to pay that kind of money for a site where 90% of the articles are of dubious quality?

But what is even more upsetting is how the site has now basically stolen content from authors who put in 10s or 100s of hours on pieces that are no longer creating value for those authors.  The author compensation policies were always a joke, so presumably authors were writing in order to gain recognition or perhaps introduce some efficiency to the market (obviously there were some manipulators as well, but my sense was that these were in the minority).  That's all gone now.  Unless your portfolio is big enough that a $900/ year charge doesn't matter, SeekingAlpha has now declared that you don't deserve the same access to information that the big guys do.

It would be like Gmail deciding to charge you $10/ month for access to your existing email.  So.. fundamentally.. wrong.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Schwab711 on March 20, 2018, 05:34:21 PM
You described the issue. You used to get paid the same regardless of whether you spent 100 hours researching a company or if you summarized recent news. SeekingAlpha eventually had to tier payouts and recoup money. Thus PRO subscriptions. The problem of rewarding quality still exists at SA and there are other avenues to monetize good research.

Even on this board there is decreasing incentive to share ideas. You can see it in post quality. Some of that is due to folks stealing ideas on this site to write on SA.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Spekulatius on March 20, 2018, 05:35:18 PM
Yes, SeekingAlpha jumped the shark. I donít think that many people will pay up, the content for the most part is not worth it. I think hiding the older articles behind a paywall will do nothing but reduce page views.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: CorpRaider on March 20, 2018, 05:44:27 PM
They have some turrible articles, imop.  I should start just ripping three charts and some quotes from x company's latest quarterly supplement on my blog (of course I would have to figure out how to accomplish that technically.)  I do like the earnings transcripts.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: rb on March 20, 2018, 06:26:43 PM
Yea, I'm not gonna spend $75 a month for earnings transcripts. Most of the articles are crap.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: CorpRaider on March 20, 2018, 06:34:22 PM
Ok they started charging for that?  I hadn't noticed yet.

I like that earningscast app, but they don't have it for android.  I switched over to do the Google FI thing.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: kab60 on March 20, 2018, 11:39:15 PM
Just fyi, when I access from the app (mobile/tablet) it is like it used to be.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: John Hjorth on March 21, 2018, 02:59:03 AM
Just fyi, when I access from the app (mobile/tablet) it is like it used to be.

That reads absolutely ridiculous, if SA here hasen't tightened the ship totally, kab60! [ : - ) ] I just looked at the website, I could not see a link to an app anywhere. Is the app that you're using an app that you have downloaded from somewhere, kab60, or is it that you're ["just"] browsing the site from mobile/tablet?
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Spekulatius on March 21, 2018, 04:14:05 AM
Yea, I'm not gonna spend $75 a month for earnings transcripts. Most of the articles are crap.

The earnings transcripts are still available and donít disappear behind the paywall. That is the main thing that attracted me to the website in the place.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: StevieV on March 21, 2018, 05:03:40 AM
Yea, I'm not gonna spend $75 a month for earnings transcripts. Most of the articles are crap.

The earnings transcripts are still available and donít disappear behind the paywall. That is the main thing that attracted me to the website in the place.

I thought that they were starting to put old transcripts behind the paywall.  Only the latest quarter available for free.  I am also having different experiences on different platforms.

If you can only access the latest articles, that greatly reduces the value of the site to the free user.  As you mention, many articles are far from great.  However, when you can go back a couple years and see all of the articles about a particular company, plus the transcripts, that adds up to some value.  Think about the value of the threads here if you could only go back a week or month.

Hope they reverse the decision.  Not tempted to pay for a subscription at current pricing and quality.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Cigarbutt on March 21, 2018, 06:21:12 AM
I found the SA articles to be uneven but some of them were very good.
At times, found it helpful to look that way in order to continue validation of an already researched investment thesis.
Even in the less than stellar articles, there were sometimes details which could be helpful in terms of potential outcome assessment.
Not sure it made a significant difference though.
Perhaps time better spent elsewhere.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: kab60 on March 21, 2018, 07:34:50 AM
Just fyi, when I access from the app (mobile/tablet) it is like it used to be.

That reads absolutely ridiculous, if SA here hasen't tightened the ship totally, kab60! [ : - ) ] I just looked at the website, I could not see a link to an app anywhere. Is the app that you're using an app that you have downloaded from somewhere, kab60, or is it that you're ["just"] browsing the site from mobile/tablet?
Just browsing the content via SA app
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: given2invest on March 21, 2018, 07:46:53 AM
I think old earnings transcripts behind paywall now which sucks.  Wish they'd offer a low cost option to subscribe just to that.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: mjs111 on March 21, 2018, 09:22:51 AM
Most of the articles weren't that useful but I did really like the earnings transcripts as it was faster to read through them than to listen to them.  Looking at MSFT, GOOG, and AXP as examples, all but the most recent transcript is now behind a paywall.  It looks like the "Pro Research" subscription tier at $20 a month would unlock it.

Ex.
https://seekingalpha.com/symbol/MSFT/earnings/transcripts


Mike
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: GregS on March 21, 2018, 09:55:18 AM
After SA put the transcripts behind the paywall I signed up for BamSEC.  $35/mo or less if billed annually and they give you access to Thomson Reuters earnings and event transcripts.  Still learning my way around the other features but this is a really useful service, and the best value you can find at that price.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: jmp8822 on March 21, 2018, 09:55:44 AM
Even on this board there is decreasing incentive to share ideas. You can see it in post quality. Some of that is due to folks stealing ideas on this site to write on SA.

I posted an idea here on ticker EXTN on Nov. 5th, 2015. It was picked as a "top-idea" on Dec. 1st, 2015 on Seeking Alpha by another author. Plagiarized? Not exactly, but it did seem a bit sketchy to me. For reference, there has been a grand total of two articles written on EXTN on Seeking Alpha, one of which was the article written less than 30 days after I posted here. Granted, I didn't write the article myself on Seeking Alpha, (which I suppose I could have), but I doubt the author could tell you with a straight face he didn't "borrow" the idea from my original post here. I much prefer this site because it isn't run like the bottom feeding losers run Seeking Alpha.

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/extn-exterran-corporation/msg252343/#msg252343
https://seekingalpha.com/article/3719086-exterran-corporation-undervalued-underfollowed-spin-100-percent-upside

Edit: The author's first bullet point: "contracted compression business provides stability through the cycle"
I said in my writeup: "Complemented by historical stability, fourth quarter Contract Operations revenue"

Frankly, I posted it publicly on purpose, but the fact that someone else might be "selling" the idea on Seeking Alpha does bug me. That site should not benefit from my original write-up by selling it to others.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: CorpRaider on March 21, 2018, 10:54:14 AM
After SA put the transcripts behind the paywall I signed up for BamSEC.  $35/mo or less if billed annually and they give you access to Thomson Reuters earnings and event transcripts.  Still learning my way around the other features but this is a really useful service, and the best value you can find at that price.

I like that site a lot too.  I didn't know about the transcripts.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Graham Osborn on March 21, 2018, 05:47:39 PM
Just fyi, when I access from the app (mobile/tablet) it is like it used to be.

Your post got me thinking and I logged out of my account.  Interestingly, I can now view a number of articles without a paywall prompt.  For example if you google "Seekingalpha + ticker" you can go straight to an article without getting the prompt to create an account.

So maybe there are some workarounds.  I guess I just won't log in anymore - lol.

I've complained to the editors in the past about the plagiarism problem.  If they ordered articles based on comment recency (as happens on COBAF) it wouldn't be an issue.  As things are, the few good articles get buried in a sea of poor articles and never get re-promoted when anticipated price action materializes.  The cereal-box authors have learned to capitalize on this by stealing content from the older articles and re-publishing it shortly after price action occurs.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Liberty on March 22, 2018, 07:08:10 AM
Yea, I'm not gonna spend $75 a month for earnings transcripts. Most of the articles are crap.

The earnings transcripts are still available and donít disappear behind the paywall. That is the main thing that attracted me to the website in the place.

They are putting the transcripts behind the paywall as well, just not all of them all at once.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: JRM on March 22, 2018, 09:21:29 AM

I've complained to the editors in the past about the plagiarism problem.  If they ordered articles based on comment recency (as happens on COBAF) it wouldn't be an issue.  As things are, the few good articles get buried in a sea of poor articles and never get re-promoted when anticipated price action materializes.  The cereal-box authors have learned to capitalize on this by stealing content from the older articles and re-publishing it shortly after price action occurs.

Exactly.  Half of the articles are just copy and paste from the most recent conference call slide show or investor day presentation.  They literally copy and paste the graphics from the company presentation, and that is the majority of the article.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: John Hjorth on March 22, 2018, 04:42:08 PM
Have any of you - writing client letters - managing other people's money or not - considered to "recycle one of your upbringings" from your client letters, or whatever you may call it, - and thereby submiting it to SA for release?

- - - o 0 o - - -

Tim [fellow board member TBW (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/profile/?u=9168)] has already done this with KMI (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/kmi-5yr-warrants/msg323823/#msg323823) to get SA Pro status.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: rb on March 22, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
No
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: DTEJD1997 on March 22, 2018, 05:12:14 PM
Have any of you - writing client letters - managing other people's money or not - considered to "recycle one of your upbringings" from your client letters, or whatever you may call it, - and thereby submiting it to SA for release?

- - - o 0 o - - -

Tim [fellow board member TBW (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/profile/?u=9168)] has already done this with KMI (http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/kmi-5yr-warrants/msg323823/#msg323823) to get SA Pro status.

Hey all:

Years & years ago, I wrote a guest posting on the blog "Ragnar is a Pirate" about Rurban Financial.  This is a small bank with most of it's operations in NW Ohio.  They have since changed their name to "State Bank Financial Group" (SBFG) and have done reasonably well. 

Anyways...Seeking Alpha REPOSTED THE ARTICLE FROM RAGNAR'S website.  They had an agreement with him that they could repost articles on his website that they were interested in and thought were quality pieces...so they republished my article.  They acknowledge that I am the author, but I can no longer gain access to it, as I don't have a premium membership to "Seeking Alpha".


Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: John Hjorth on March 22, 2018, 05:28:10 PM
Sometimes, one here on CoBF, asks questions - "out in the open", so to say ... "without knowing which pot you stir" - one thing is sure: You never know whitch response you get.

Always educational and enlightning [- at least for me].

- - - o 0 o - - -

rb, do you care to elaborate - just - a bit? [Yes, I dared here to ask...]["No" will also do...]
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: rb on March 22, 2018, 05:41:08 PM
No, I wouldn't consider posting a client letter or a good idea on SA. The site is pretty crap. Full of wannabe analysts that have no idea what they're talking about. (Granted there are some smart people posting, but how do you separate the wheat from the chaff without spending a lot of time). Posting a good idea there or letter would just be a waste of my time. What do I have to gain?

I'd much rather post something like that here. One big advantage this site has is that it's a forum where others get to chip in, criticize me, try to poke holes in my ideas. That's valuable.  This site also has a bunch of people that don't know what they're talking about. But it also has some really smart people. Over time you figure out who falls into which category. When someone who's smart tells you that you've done something wrong that's valuable.

Lastly, I tend to be pretty lazy. So if something doesn't bring me enjoyment or make me money I won't really do it. So... No on Seeking Alpha.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: John Hjorth on March 22, 2018, 05:46:00 PM
rb, response about as I personally expected. Thanks.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: villainx on March 22, 2018, 09:35:10 PM
Seeking Alpha could be better, but it's better than almost any option or there is no other option like it.

If they are putting more stuff behind paywall ... could mean there's trouble with their business?  And as bad as some of their articles and commenters are, losing SA, or substantially scaled down SA, would be net negative. 

Sure, if the business is indeed in trouble, it could be of their own doing - bad articles/commenters. But it's great to have more investing voices.

On the other hand, may be their business is doing fantastic, and they believe more folks would traverse the paywall, in which case ... more sign we are in a bubble?


Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: TBW on March 23, 2018, 03:53:53 AM
I didn't realize that SA was changing when I posted my article.  I posted more out of curiousity, I wanted to see what it was like, understand their business model, different options etc.  In theory it is a huge mass of interested readers in financial content.  I wanted to see what engaging with that was like.

I actually really like SA.  Yes the articles are mostly garbage, however there have been some excellent ones from time to time.  The transcripts are great too.  What I really like is being able to read a halfway decent article and see what the comments have to say.  I think this is super valuable.  It is shocking how off-the-mark and 'besides the point' alot of these comments are.  I think the comments provides great insight into what some investors are thinking, and how irrational the market can be.

It would be a shame if it is changing up as much as you say.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: mwtorock on March 23, 2018, 06:55:34 PM
Yeah, i used to read through all the short articles on SA when working on a long idea. but now just the latest transcripts... >:(
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Nell-e on March 24, 2018, 01:49:03 AM
They're price discriminating.  I noticed SA's bullshit paywall several months ago.  At first, they were giving notifications that it was $75 per month.  I ignored it.  Now they're offering me the same package for $20 per month.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: CorpRaider on March 24, 2018, 01:00:37 PM
You know who I liked on there?  That Whopper Investments guy.  I guess someone hired him as an analyst or something.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: JanSvenda on March 24, 2018, 01:39:31 PM
You know who I liked on there?  That Whopper Investments guy.  I guess someone hired him as an analyst or something.

Andrew Walker now works with Chris DeMuth Jr. (Rangeley Capital).
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: CorpRaider on March 24, 2018, 02:00:21 PM
Ahh, neat.  Good for him.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: bbarberayr on March 26, 2018, 06:33:35 PM
I'm seeing a lot of the earnings call transcripts on Yahoo Finance for free.  For example - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/edited-transcript-voya-earnings-conference-194246411.html

Good catch on using the App to see older articles - I wonder how long that will last.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: alpha23 on March 26, 2018, 08:29:05 PM
Google caches Seeking Alpha Pro articles in their original version (which SA apparently posts for free for some temporary period). Example: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal is a Pro article, and https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-cmUqhmNTpwJ:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us is the cached version of the full article. To get to page 2, just add ?page=2 to the end of the URL ( ex. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-cmUqhmNTpwJ:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal?page=2 ).

Cheers!
Paul


Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Liberty on March 27, 2018, 06:03:04 AM
Thanks Alpha23!
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: rkbabang on March 27, 2018, 09:10:21 AM
I haven't noticed anything different about seekingalpha.  At least the way I use it it is the same.  I have them email me articles about the tickers that I'm interested in.  And I click on the articles I wish to read from their emails.  So far they have never emailed me about an article behind a paywall.  I don't know if they are only free for limited time and disappear later though.  I don't usually go directly to their website to search.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Liberty on March 27, 2018, 09:12:51 AM
I haven't noticed anything different about seekingalpha.  At least the way I use it it is the same.  I have them email me articles about the tickers that I'm interested in.  And I click on the articles I wish to read from their emails.  So far they have never emailed me about an article behind a paywall.  I don't know if they are only free for limited time and disappear later though.  I don't usually go directly to their website to search.

Do you read conference call transcripts? What is your source?
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: rkbabang on March 27, 2018, 09:40:04 AM
I haven't noticed anything different about seekingalpha.  At least the way I use it it is the same.  I have them email me articles about the tickers that I'm interested in.  And I click on the articles I wish to read from their emails.  So far they have never emailed me about an article behind a paywall.  I don't know if they are only free for limited time and disappear later though.  I don't usually go directly to their website to search.

Do you read conference call transcripts? What is your source?

I usually receive emails with the transcripts from seekingalpha for the tickers for which I get alerts on.  Come to think of it, I haven't received any lately.  Hmm.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: racemize on March 27, 2018, 09:56:40 AM
Conference call transcripts are typically free at the beginning, and then they go behind the pay wall later.

I just PDF anything I like from SA before it goes behind a paywall.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: mwtorock on March 27, 2018, 10:45:46 AM
Google caches Seeking Alpha Pro articles in their original version (which SA apparently posts for free for some temporary period). Example: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal is a Pro article, and https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-cmUqhmNTpwJ:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us is the cached version of the full article. To get to page 2, just add ?page=2 to the end of the URL ( ex. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-cmUqhmNTpwJ:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal?page=2 ).

Cheers!
Paul

This is awesome way to deal with the pay wall. Thanks!
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: JRM on March 27, 2018, 10:46:52 AM
I noticed that if I commented on an article I could still access it through the comments link after it had gone behind the paywall.  I still had full access through this backdoor.  Not sure if they "fixed the glitch", because I don't comment often.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Nell-e on March 27, 2018, 03:59:13 PM
Google caches Seeking Alpha Pro articles in their original version (which SA apparently posts for free for some temporary period). Example: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal is a Pro article, and https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-cmUqhmNTpwJ:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us is the cached version of the full article. To get to page 2, just add ?page=2 to the end of the URL ( ex. https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-cmUqhmNTpwJ:https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122501-charter-communications-deal?page=2 ).

Cheers!
Paul

Thanks for tip, Paul.  I tried it for an old Apple transcript.  I can get to page 2 of the transcript but not beyond.  See example below.  Am I doing something wrong?
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://seekingalpha.com/article/3968300-apple-aapl-timothy-donald-cook-q2-2016-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=3
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: EgonKuhn on March 28, 2018, 11:38:02 AM
Just use Firefox, take the base URL (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://seekingalpha.com/article/3968300-apple-aapl-timothy-donald-cook-q2-2016-results-earnings-call-transcript) and turn off style sheets via menu entry: View->Page Style->No Style

Then you can read the entire transcript in one page.
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Nell-e on March 28, 2018, 08:14:00 PM
You can read the entire transcript in one page.

Thanks! Awesome
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: mjs111 on April 01, 2018, 02:11:15 PM
The Motley Fool has conference call transcripts.  They're a bit hidden. I'm trying to see if they can unhide them a bit.  For example, here's Apple's most recent conference call transcript:

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2018/02/01/apple-inc-appl-q1-2018-earnings-conference-call-tr.aspx

If you go to fool.com, type in AAPL in the search bar on the right hand side of the main page.  That will take you to the Fool's stock page for that company.  On the right hand side again, go to "Overview" and scroll down to "News and Headlines."  Unfortunately at that point you have to scroll through all sorts of news items to get to the transcript.  Hopefully with SA going up behind a paywall a small amount of convincing could be done to get The Fool to separate out the transcripts as a separate item.

Mike



Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: Gilp on April 01, 2018, 08:37:30 PM
The Motley Fool has conference call transcripts.  They're a bit hidden. I'm trying to see if they can unhide them a bit.  For example, here's Apple's most recent conference call transcript:

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2018/02/01/apple-inc-appl-q1-2018-earnings-conference-call-tr.aspx

If you go to fool.com, type in AAPL in the search bar on the right hand side of the main page.  That will take you to the Fool's stock page for that company.  On the right hand side again, go to "Overview" and scroll down to "News and Headlines."  Unfortunately at that point you have to scroll through all sorts of news items to get to the transcript.  Hopefully with SA going up behind a paywall a small amount of convincing could be done to get The Fool to separate out the transcripts as a separate item.

Mike

Thanks for the info. You can simplify it much by searching google: "aapl transcript fool".
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: mjs111 on April 04, 2018, 06:28:20 AM
I talked to people at Motley Fool and the transcripts are a new thing for them, still in beta.  They're working on fleshing it out more, and aim to have them more robustly supported in the near future, so watch that space.

Mike
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: BeerBBQ on April 13, 2018, 08:38:56 AM
Just use Firefox, take the base URL (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://seekingalpha.com/article/3968300-apple-aapl-timothy-donald-cook-q2-2016-results-earnings-call-transcript) and turn off style sheets via menu entry: View->Page Style->No Style

Then you can read the entire transcript in one page.

where is the menu entry? I can't find view -> Pagee STyle ->no style
Title: Re: SeekingAlpha turns Evil
Post by: mwtorock on April 13, 2018, 12:39:12 PM


where is the menu entry? I can't find view -> Pagee STyle ->no style
[/quote]

Right click the top bar of firefox window, check Menu Bar, and then view -> Page Style ->no style