Author Topic: Space X  (Read 60595 times)

yadayada

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Re: Space X
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2014, 11:57:35 AM »
I guess this is a bit of a derail, but what completely blows my mind is that we let the government run education.

Isn't education basicly a product? You pay a certain price for people inserting information in your head in a certain way, by trying to motivate you (or the 12-18 year old you) and by explaining this in a certain way.

Just look how the free market basicly made every other service and product very good and cheaper. Why can't we let the market do education? Instead the most important thing (maybe after healthcare) is run by a horrible bureacracy that does not care at all about innovation. I think greenblatt is doing good things here, and the bureacrats and teachers unions are actively working against his superior and cheaper model. Makes me cringe.

But as soon as a politician mentions it, people point toward corrupt bankers and think horrible things will happen.

But then the poor wouldn't get the wonderful education that they currently do.  You'd have a situation where the middle class and rich kids would get a good to excellent education while the poor would be stuck in dangerous poor inner-city schools with teachers who are burned out or simply don't care, which would make for a poor learning environment. So these kids will simply not have the same opportunities to learn and better themselves as the wealthier kids do.  Of course under government run systems everything is rainbows and unicorns and just works perfectly because the law says it must.


EDIT:  I don't believe that ending public education would result in the above, I actually think everyone, including the poor, would be much better off. But I just wanted to point out that even if all of the worst fears of ending government funded education that people hold in their head's were all completely valid and came to be, it would only mean that private education would be the equivalent of the public system we have now.

Also in case you were not aware of this organization:  The Alliance for the Separation of School & State
you can give subsidy? The less you make, the more subsidy you get. And get the banks to make an account where you can only send that money to schools? Just so poor people wont use it for other stuff.

Can also make certain laws that force schools to randomly take kids. So they wont handpick the best students to get the best results and ratings. 


rkbabang

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Re: Space X
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2014, 12:25:30 PM »
I guess this is a bit of a derail, but what completely blows my mind is that we let the government run education.

Isn't education basicly a product? You pay a certain price for people inserting information in your head in a certain way, by trying to motivate you (or the 12-18 year old you) and by explaining this in a certain way.

Just look how the free market basicly made every other service and product very good and cheaper. Why can't we let the market do education? Instead the most important thing (maybe after healthcare) is run by a horrible bureacracy that does not care at all about innovation. I think greenblatt is doing good things here, and the bureacrats and teachers unions are actively working against his superior and cheaper model. Makes me cringe.

But as soon as a politician mentions it, people point toward corrupt bankers and think horrible things will happen.

But then the poor wouldn't get the wonderful education that they currently do.  You'd have a situation where the middle class and rich kids would get a good to excellent education while the poor would be stuck in dangerous poor inner-city schools with teachers who are burned out or simply don't care, which would make for a poor learning environment. So these kids will simply not have the same opportunities to learn and better themselves as the wealthier kids do.  Of course under government run systems everything is rainbows and unicorns and just works perfectly because the law says it must.


EDIT:  I don't believe that ending public education would result in the above, I actually think everyone, including the poor, would be much better off. But I just wanted to point out that even if all of the worst fears of ending government funded education that people hold in their head's were all completely valid and came to be, it would only mean that private education would be the equivalent of the public system we have now.

Also in case you were not aware of this organization:  The Alliance for the Separation of School & State
you can give subsidy? The less you make, the more subsidy you get. And get the banks to make an account where you can only send that money to schools? Just so poor people wont use it for other stuff.

Can also make certain laws that force schools to randomly take kids. So they wont handpick the best students to get the best results and ratings. 

What government gives money to government wants to control.  Any type of voucher is just a backdoor way of controlling private institutions and eventually getting the teachers unions in there as a requirement.  How long before the unions convince the politicians that anyone being paid (however indirectly) with government money to teach children should be held to the same "high standards" as teachers in government schools are?   Would you want your child to be forced to go to school with gang-bangers?   Forced bussing isn't the answer.  If we really wanted to help the poor we'd end the war on drugs, but that isn't going to happen.  It's funny how people worry that some child will fall through the cracks in a private system, when the current situation is that whole sections of society are falling through a huge gaping hole.  This is the same whenever you talk about ending government control of anything.  If the private solution isn't a perfect utopia people would rather stick with a violently enforced government monopoly that is even worse, because it at least gives them the illusion of having some control.  Just pass another law (because magic words on paper are especially powerful, at least that is what they teach in government schools), vote for someone else (because choosing between 2 party stooges is a surefire way to make you feel like you are in control and all is well), steal more money to throw at the problems (Because there is nothing that politically controlled stolen funds can't solve) and maybe all the problems will be solved.  If not, there is always the next election to try again, there will be two more party picked candidates for you to pick from.

yadayada

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Re: Space X
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2014, 01:28:16 PM »
So basicly we agree that the free market would do a lot better job. But where it will go wrong is corrupt government. Bureacracy stepping in and ending the party.

It seems a lot of these problems are political, the political system is broken at it's core. And before we let anything be regulated by free market, you first need to fix the lobbying problem.

hellsten

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Re: Space X
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2014, 02:05:41 PM »
So basicly we agree that the free market would do a lot better job. But where it will go wrong is corrupt government. Bureacracy stepping in and ending the party.

It seems a lot of these problems are political, the political system is broken at it's core. And before we let anything be regulated by free market, you first need to fix the lobbying problem.

Ayn Rand?

yadayada

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Re: Space X
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2014, 02:27:35 PM »
So basicly we agree that the free market would do a lot better job. But where it will go wrong is corrupt government. Bureacracy stepping in and ending the party.

It seems a lot of these problems are political, the political system is broken at it's core. And before we let anything be regulated by free market, you first need to fix the lobbying problem.

Ayn Rand?
common sense?

ERICOPOLY

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Re: Space X
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2014, 04:58:55 PM »
And before we let anything be regulated by free market, you first need to fix the lobbying problem.

You also need to eliminate the "limited liability" legal protections granted to corporate owners (by government) before you can possibly have a free market.  So I'm skeptical of the possibility of a free market. 

You would need less offshore drilling regulation, for example, if the investors were personally responsible for cleaning up every drop of oil spilled.  Instead, they are only liable for the equity they have invested in the company.  This invites regulation upon them -- because if their financial liability is limited, then they will cut corners if they can.  That's why there are people who feel the need to heavily regulate them.

Sure, regulations have costs.  They pay these costs instead of paying for the full price of their mistakes.  That's the present system.  I guess we have this system because nobody would go out there and drill otherwise without the limited liability protection.


sys

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Re: Space X
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2014, 01:22:29 AM »
Im really curious how Musk basicly went into space industry and is now doing it better then everyone else. There are some pretty smart people in NASA and other rocket company's right? I guess bureacracy is just that bad in those organizations? Musk is very smart, but I imagine that a lot of people at NASA and those rocket contracting company's are also very smart.

spacex isn't necessarily doing it better.  they are offering to do it cheaper.  very likely bidding has been based on what they think they can charge, not cost. 

yadayada

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Re: Space X
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2014, 05:28:49 AM »
Im really curious how Musk basicly went into space industry and is now doing it better then everyone else. There are some pretty smart people in NASA and other rocket company's right? I guess bureacracy is just that bad in those organizations? Musk is very smart, but I imagine that a lot of people at NASA and those rocket contracting company's are also very smart.

spacex isn't necessarily doing it better.  they are offering to do it cheaper.  very likely bidding has been based on what they think they can charge, not cost.
they are doing it better by finding out how to land the rocket back to earth? That is how it becomes cheaper.

value-is-what-you-get

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Re: Space X
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2014, 07:02:19 AM »
Im really curious how Musk basicly went into space industry and is now doing it better then everyone else. There are some pretty smart people in NASA and other rocket company's right? I guess bureacracy is just that bad in those organizations? Musk is very smart, but I imagine that a lot of people at NASA and those rocket contracting company's are also very smart.

spacex isn't necessarily doing it better.  they are offering to do it cheaper.  very likely bidding has been based on what they think they can charge, not cost.

Musk has applied the same basic process to SpaceX as he used with Tesla.  He calls it engineering based on first principles.  This is a world of difference from engineering and design based on analogy.  He explains all this in several of his interviews.  Do you think the ModelS is the safest car ever tested by a fluke?  It s a concious effort to design to a standard.  With rockets, his thinking process is basically to add up the weight of all components and fuel, multiply by the price per pound, and then minimize the cost to form all the constituant parts into a rocket.  Certainly safety is a number one priority as well.  I will go out on a limb and suggest SpaceX will run the safest launch program ever with live people.  With rockets andastronauts it s really easy to price better than the competition because you re competing with governments - the least efficient way to get things done.  What an ideal circumstamce when the low bid turms out to be the highest quality!

Liberty

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Re: Space X
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2014, 09:56:15 AM »
spacex isn't necessarily doing it better.  they are offering to do it cheaper.  very likely bidding has been based on what they think they can charge, not cost.

They're doing everything much better -- price is just one of those things. I suggest you look into what the company is doing and what others have been doing.
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