Author Topic: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!  (Read 2842 times)

JRM

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 06:00:17 PM »
I like the concept that the schools are means tested in order for students of a particular school to receive government backed student loans.  In other words, if more than a certain percentage of students graduate from a school with a particular degree and cannot pay back the loan, then the government will no longer provide financing for student loans for the program. Some programs will probably need to be subsidized (or tuition lowered) like teaching degrees.  Why should a teaching certificate cost the same as an engineering degree or pre-med?


Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 06:12:41 PM »
What I think is retarded, is that none of this is forced, and much of this is because of selfishness and motives not really centered around education. Community college is available to everyone, and costs very little. If your goal is an education, why not do that? Its inexcusable to excuse student loans for people who chose to go to $30K+ per year universities, took room and board, and lets face it, basically were there for the "experience" and social aspects...

Spekulatius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2985
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 06:21:16 PM »
Hopefully not. They are already entitled enough as it is. Nothing will ever teach them responsibility. Working how/when you feel like it(only to complain about wages), daily trips to Starbucks, paying $9 for avocado toast... they're idiots.

Using about every cliche about the Millennial generation there is. My sample size is small, but from the handful of millennials I als I know from work, no fits this description. As for the student loan bailout, itís inevitable, imo. Once the millennial generation puts their mark on the political landscape, itís only a matter of time.

Ah, Greg was a grumpy, 65-year old senior when he came out of his mother's womb, so I would take that all with a grain of salt...especially on the $9 avocado toast...it's more like $15 everywhere! 

That being said, the stats don't lie, and they do show that Millennials are struggling on a broad basis.  So maybe not your immediate peer group, but certainly the age category.  And truth is that is natural since they come out of school with debt, carry mortgage debt, credit card debt and auto loans as they build their young careers.  But the sheer weight is enormous for this age category compared to Boomers, Gen X & Y, etc at the same age.  Cheers!

No question the issue with student loan debt is real. The peer group I am referring to are all engineers, so they have a decent paying job, which goes a long way towards solving the problem.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

cherzeca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 06:22:18 PM »
20 years ago I did some volunteer work at a NYC charter school, inner city.  principal said that her goal was to send everyone to college because data said that best way to escape poverty was to get a college education.  90% of these kids were totally unprepared for college imo, and this was a high aspirational charter high school.  the thing about merit is that it ain't easy.  just because some charter school principal and some college admissions teams think it would be great for everyone to get a college education doesn't mean that everyone will succeed.

moral of story:  you cant force achievement as social policy or a social science experiment

Gamecock-YT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 06:57:44 PM »
Seems like we average one of these threads once a quarter, nothing changes. Everyone rehashes the same points. SD can make my argument much more eloquently than I:

This is the same argument that the drunk makes at the bar.
ďI was drinking [young and dumb], and you [society] knew I wasnít making rational decisions [not mature enough].
You should never have lent me the money to continue - this is all YOUR fault, not mine!!Ē 

Money was made available to finance an education, and yes it came with strings; thatís life. No different to the mortgage that millions of people pay every day. But we can foreclose on a house, whereas that stupid educational decision has to be worn. By both the drunk AND society.

If the drunk canít repay, society gives the drunk the ability to earn debt forgiveness. If the drunkís program does not qualify [art history], nothing prevents the drunk from returning to school, and doing something that DOES qualify. The drunk just doesnít want to.

The only issue here is whether the money should have been made available. Most would say yes, but not until the following morning when the drunk is sober [student is mature]. With greater responsibility on the part of the student, comes a reduction in the educational abuses.

But until then it just comes across as spoilt brats, refusing to grow up.

SD

CorpRaider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
    • The Corpraider
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2019, 05:04:28 AM »
The fact that the debt is not dischargeable is insane.  There needs to be a system with some accountability for the schools and the lenders.  Most of the schools are borderline committing fraud with the statistics they publish and upon which these children (or adults with massive information disadvantages) are making huge financial decisions (with the help of advisors compensated by the recipient of the loan proceeds).  Higher education needs to be totally disrupted. The financial incentives are totally perverse and so....a clusterfk is born.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 05:08:26 AM by CorpRaider »

cubsfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2019, 05:40:10 AM »
The fact that the debt is not dischargeable is insane.  There needs to be a system with some accountability for the schools and the lenders.  Most of the schools are borderline committing fraud with the statistics they publish and upon which these children (or adults with massive information disadvantages) are making huge financial decisions (with the help of advisors compensated by the recipient of the loan proceeds).  Higher education needs to be totally disrupted. The financial incentives are totally perverse and so....a clusterfk is born.

+1 - "a clusterfk is born" - the consummate description

Castanza

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2019, 05:50:37 AM »
A bailout is completely ridiculous and would have a negative effect on the future of education and generations. It's a band-aid solution at best.

A bailout is also a huge slap in the face to people who were responsible like myself. I went to college for Petroleum Engineering (2yrs). End of my sophomore year I realized the industry was starting to show signs of slowing. I figured hey, I don't want to be 60k in debt and not have a potential job lined up. So I dropped out and took a year off. To the scoff of my college friends and others I took a job as a lowly UPS driver and busted my butt on 12 hours days. I made pretty good money (I was lucky). I decided to finish school in another program at an online university. I don't believe that the university you go to really matters unless it's an IVY. Well I continued to bust my butt getting up at 4:30 in the morning to study, head to work, get home around 8 and then study a few more hours in the evening. Practically had no weekend etc. But when all was said an done I graduated basically debt free, had a good savings account and a job to hold me over until I found a job. Ended up only taking 2 months to find one that paid the same with way better hours. I'm in better shape than all my friend who WILLINGLY chose to take out enormous loans. I would say financially I'm 4-7 years ahead of most people I graduated with.

So a bailout? No, screw that. I payed my way and I'm not paying for anyone elses poor decisions. I'm paying out of pocket for masters right now. I agree with some others on here that one of the most harmful things this education system has done to young American students is tell them "you must go to college." This bailout will do nothing but devalue higher and lower education further. In my opinion this generation needs to learn from their mistakes (whether it was their fault of not). If a bailout is given do you think these parents are more or less likely to push their kids into college at any cost? S many of these "white collar" jobs could be done by smart high school graduates with some basic training. But as it stands now the Bachelors degree seems to be the new GED and the Masters is quickly becoming the new Bachelors. That trend needs to be reversed.

__________________________________

Solution?

First and foremost I don't believe the govt should be in the business of loans. But being that it exists the system clearly needs reformed.

Put stipulations on loans.

1.) Loans should only be given out to HS graduates who have good GPA's.

2.) Bureau of Labor should do studies every so often to see the supply and demand of jobs. Loans should only be given out to students majoring in say top 10 needed careers (RN).

3.) This dependency on govt loans needs to be reduced. I say ween the total number of loans given over a 10 year period until you hit 0. (maybe a it extreme)

4.) State schools shouldn't offer "worthless degrees." If you want a basket weaving degree then you can pay your own way with a private loan at a liberal arts university.

5.) Reform High School and add apprenticeships. Say Katie is good at math and has in interest in engineering. Well maybe starting junior year let her work at a local engineering firm for a few hours. This gives experience and lets employers find possible future employment. Perhaps if this is done some companies would come up with contracts saying "we will pay for your college education if you commit 5 years of post grad employment to us." 

Not only that it would help create better trained HS students. It could potential reduce this ridiculous barrier (Bachelors Degree) for many of these jobs and bring back merit to a GED.

(I understand this might not factor in employment laws etc.)

You don't needs a college degree to make a good livings. As it stands now poverty is less than 1% across any ethnicity if you follow these simple rules.
1.) Graduate HS
2.) Don't have a child before graduating HS
3.) Upon graduating HS take any full-time job you can get (can be minimum wage).




Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 06:07:42 AM »
A bailout is completely ridiculous and would have a negative effect on the future of education and generations. It's a band-aid solution at best.

A bailout is also a huge slap in the face to people who were responsible like myself. I went to college for Petroleum Engineering (2yrs). End of my sophomore year I realized the industry was starting to show signs of slowing. I figured hey, I don't want to be 60k in debt and not have a potential job lined up. So I dropped out and took a year off. To the scoff of my college friends and others I took a job as a lowly UPS driver and busted my butt on 12 hours days. I made pretty good money (I was lucky). I decided to finish school in another program at an online university. I don't believe that the university you go to really matters unless it's an IVY. Well I continued to bust my butt getting up at 4:30 in the morning to study, head to work, get home around 8 and then study a few more hours in the evening. Practically had no weekend etc. But when all was said an done I graduated basically debt free, had a good savings account and a job to hold me over until I found a job. Ended up only taking 2 months to find one that paid the same with way better hours. I'm in better shape than all my friend who WILLINGLY chose to take out enormous loans. I would say financially I'm 4-7 years ahead of most people I graduated with.

So a bailout? No, screw that. I payed my way and I'm not paying for anyone elses poor decisions. I'm paying out of pocket for masters right now. I agree with some others on here that one of the most harmful things this education system has done to young American students is tell them "you must go to college." This bailout will do nothing but devalue higher and lower education further. In my opinion this generation needs to learn from their mistakes (whether it was their fault of not). If a bailout is given do you think these parents are more or less likely to push their kids into college at any cost? S many of these "white collar" jobs could be done by smart high school graduates with some basic training. But as it stands now the Bachelors degree seems to be the new GED and the Masters is quickly becoming the new Bachelors. That trend needs to be reversed.

__________________________________

Solution?

First and foremost I don't believe the govt should be in the business of loans. But being that it exists the system clearly needs reformed.

Put stipulations on loans.

1.) Loans should only be given out to HS graduates who have good GPA's.

2.) Bureau of Labor should do studies every so often to see the supply and demand of jobs. Loans should only be given out to students majoring in say top 10 needed careers (RN).

3.) This dependency on govt loans needs to be reduced. I say ween the total number of loans given over a 10 year period until you hit 0. (maybe a it extreme)

4.) State schools shouldn't offer "worthless degrees." If you want a basket weaving degree then you can pay your own way with a private loan at a liberal arts university.

5.) Reform High School and add apprenticeships. Say Katie is good at math and has in interest in engineering. Well maybe starting junior year let her work at a local engineering firm for a few hours. This gives experience and lets employers find possible future employment. Perhaps if this is done some companies would come up with contracts saying "we will pay for your college education if you commit 5 years of post grad employment to us." 

Not only that it would help create better trained HS students. It could potential reduce this ridiculous barrier (Bachelors Degree) for many of these jobs and bring back merit to a GED.

(I understand this might not factor in employment laws etc.)

You don't needs a college degree to make a good livings. As it stands now poverty is less than 1% across any ethnicity if you follow these simple rules.
1.) Graduate HS
2.) Don't have a child before graduating HS
3.) Upon graduating HS take any full-time job you can get (can be minimum wage).

The highlighted are just proof IMO how people are stupid. Maybe you saw it differently, or maybe you just decided to work(or not make excuses), but those lowly minimum wage jobs offer a lot more than just cash. They offer job experience and industry knowledge. The problem is that with poor people, most are not ambitious at all and just want to do the minimum. They begrudge getting up at 7:30 so they can be at work at 8, and sit there staring at their watches counting down the time until lunch break, and then 5 pm. They should be soaking up knowledge; its free tuition. Its really not hard, if you have half a brain, to work in an industry for a couple years and then figure out how to make money in that industry somewhere else in the ecosystem.

cherzeca

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2093
Re: Student Loans Getting Close to Implosion!
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2019, 06:20:34 AM »
@greg/cast

great points.  as I look back on my manual labor jobs during summers of high school and college, I gathered more important responsibility/socialization skills there than in school.  could cut classes, cant cut work. needed to make deposits into favor bank since I will see my co-worker tomorrow v. just find different buddies (though playing on a team reinforced what I learned at work).

few in higher education appreciate this