Author Topic: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'  (Read 3247 times)

wachtwoord

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2017, 10:01:55 AM »
SD you forgot about transaction fees. And yes 21M will be the limit. No-one wants to hold a bitcoin fork which abandones that limit.
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no_free_lunch

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2017, 10:15:25 AM »
The central bank idea does have the advantage of much much much lower electricity cost per transaction.  Bitcoin is so inefficient and there doesn't seem to be a way to have the security without that inefficiency.  The more people mining, the harder it is theory for any one person to corner the chain.  With the central bank idea there is no mining at all so big edge there.

However I still don't think this will fly.  I just can't see central governments giving up control of their currency.   I really don't want to drag this into politics but I think our current system with large government deb loads is dependent on low levels of inflation to devalue the debt.  If you can't print I don't know if you can guarantee inflation.

I also think people would continue to use bitcoin regardless. As I said there are uses beyond currency and even for currency there is value to being outside of government scrutiny.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:34:46 AM by no_free_lunch »

Hielko

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2017, 10:23:13 AM »
SD you forgot about transaction fees. And yes 21M will be the limit. No-one wants to hold a bitcoin fork which abandones that limit.
Too be honest, I think the hard limit is stupid since it means that the whole cost of running the network is being shouldered by people doing transactions while everybody owning bitcoin takes advantage of the network being secure. The current system where there is a bit of "inflation" because new coins are issued is I think a lot fairer.

Cevian

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2017, 10:53:33 AM »
I would have thought the following would be apparent by now but might be worth reiterating.

Most people have lost complete confidence in:

1. Government and Politicians
2. The Mainstream Media

Therein lies the explanation to many of the disruptions we are seeing over the past few years and will keep seeing.

A close third creeping up on the "loss of confidence" list are "Big corporations".
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 12:31:47 PM by Cevian »

rkbabang

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2017, 01:54:56 PM »
I would have thought the following would be apparent by now but might be worth reiterating.

Most people have lost complete confidence in:

1. Government and Politicians
2. The Mainstream Media

Therein lies the explanation to many of the disruptions we are seeing over the past few years and will keep seeing.

+1

This is why the left is having more and more difficult time understanding the world.  What is obvious to everyone else is simply inexplicable to them. Thus they think it must be hatred or racism or ignorance or something.

SharperDingaan

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 02:00:21 PM »
Re fees, see p 9 Central bank fees. "The central bank does not charge fees for distributing exchanging or storing CBDC, or for making payments using CBDC. Commercial banks could, however, decide to charge fees for services related to CBDC." Once Bitcoin reaches the 21M coin design limit, miners are paid in cash - at whatever price the market will bare at the time.

Re control, see p 9 (2.7 Summary) and p 22-23 (6. Conclusions). The CB actually gets too much control, particular in times of stress. Commercial banks cant charge a fee to keep your money, and must offer > the CB interest rate if they are to retain a customers deposit.

We might not like it, but if we trust our central bank enough to use its fiat currency, then we also trust it enough to use its CBDC. Alternatively we could use gold, rice, sea shells, or Bitcoin - but we run the risk that nobody will accept them. In most places it's still really hard to pay for a beer with Bitcoin.

SD


   
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 02:02:16 PM by SharperDingaan »

no_free_lunch

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2017, 03:25:33 PM »
Quote
Supply by central bank

The central bank supplies as much digital currency as the public is willing to hold.  As a result, supply is demand-determined and perfectly elastic. 

So this isn't a block-chain and the supply isn't fixed.  What features does this have that will disrupt bitcoin?

wachtwoord

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2017, 04:25:47 PM »
You trust CBs SD? The main people into Bitcoin do not. That's why CBs are not present (and cannot be present) in Bitcoin's design.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"

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SharperDingaan

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 05:33:49 AM »
The CB trust issue reflects the cyberpunk movement of the 1990's; anarchy as the solution to corrupt society, resulting in the Nakamoto creation of Bitcoin. The reality of course is that at the day-to-day level - we all have to trust the state authorities where we live; and the CB is just another authority. At the practical level, most would prefer doing business alongside a CB - versus a drug dealer/money launderer. Additionally, not all CB's are equal; we might trust the Bank of Canada, the Central Bank of Russia - not so much.

This is a digital currency block chain, running on a database; with the value of the currency always 1 coin = 1 $ fiat, and guaranteed by the CB. Compare Sections 5 and 7 against Bitcoin, to determine the disruptive features. We would suggest the answer also depends on the users purpose; ZERO price volatility is great for transactions, but a nightmare if your Bitcoin is held for trading.

SD



 


rkbabang

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Re: Welcome to the 'Bitcoin killer'
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 06:33:27 AM »
SD, since you are fine trusting governments with your money:

  http://www.businessinsider.com/venezuela-launch-cryptocurrency-called-petro-2017-12