Author Topic: Working for investing legends  (Read 3640 times)

sleepydragon

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 05:15:13 PM »
I have a friend who used to work for ray dalio. He is extremely driven and hard working. He used to be fat and when he talks, clients doesn’t respect him much. After failing to lose weights, he did a surgery to cut half of his stomach. He is also a very nice, solid, family guy. But he is kinda weird: He is a big fan of Chairman Mao and Chinese communism, and the culture in bridgewater is biazard (it’s culture revolution everyday there — everyone recite every sentence in his “principles “


Og

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 06:18:06 PM »
There is value depending on who you work for. I can tell you I’ve seen some one man shops do some insanely amazing things that don’t even seem possible who worked for a “legend”. Unfortunately I am sworn to secrecy via contract to go into any more detail than that. But all I will say there are methods used that even the vast majority of the value investing community doesn’t know about to get a real edge.

tol1

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 01:06:09 AM »
There is value depending on who you work for. I can tell you I’ve seen some one man shops do some insanely amazing things that don’t even seem possible who worked for a “legend”. Unfortunately I am sworn to secrecy via contract to go into any more detail than that. But all I will say there are methods used that even the vast majority of the value investing community doesn’t know about to get a real edge.

Mysterious - I have worked for a very good US hedge fund, so I know what the industry is capable of. Can you elaborate on what one man shops are capable of doing according to you as much as possible?

Spekulatius

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 05:42:07 AM »
There is value depending on who you work for. I can tell you I’ve seen some one man shops do some insanely amazing things that don’t even seem possible who worked for a “legend”. Unfortunately I am sworn to secrecy via contract to go into any more detail than that. But all I will say there are methods used that even the vast majority of the value investing community doesn’t know about to get a real edge.

What you state might be correct, but If I were pitched participation in a one man shop that does amazing things that none of us have heard about, I would decline.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

Og

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2018, 08:50:18 AM »
That's your prerogative. There are lots of people that do things where they have an edge. Nothing nefarious or illegal about it. Sorry if that's how I was making it come off. For instance - look at a guy like Dan Loeb. He clearly has an edge with some of the stuff he buys based off a shit ton of research on publicly traded debt securities. Yes, he has analysts but if he was just a one-man shop, I'm sure he'd still be doing a lot of that shit. There's a ton of different kinds of securities out there. If you're small there's lots of fun shit you can do to make money that is just too small or too illiquid for larger funds to do. Even as Buffett said, if you're managing small amounts of capital you can take advantage of buying small private companies at super low multiples or buying super illiquid debt that's mispriced.

Spekulatius

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2018, 12:02:11 PM »
That's your prerogative. There are lots of people that do things where they have an edge. Nothing nefarious or illegal about it. Sorry if that's how I was making it come off. For instance - look at a guy like Dan Loeb. He clearly has an edge with some of the stuff he buys based off a shit ton of research on publicly traded debt securities. Yes, he has analysts but if he was just a one-man shop, I'm sure he'd still be doing a lot of that shit. There's a ton of different kinds of securities out there. If you're small there's lots of fun shit you can do to make money that is just too small or too illiquid for larger funds to do. Even as Buffett said, if you're managing small amounts of capital you can take advantage of buying small private companies at super low multiples or buying super illiquid debt that's mispriced.

OG- correct and thanks for the clarification. It makes sense that you can have a clear edge, especially in smaller niches. I don’t think this qualifies asset secret though.

I think there are quite a few in this forum right here that have found some flavor of a secret sauce that works for them.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

Foreign Tuffett

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2018, 12:26:03 PM »
There is value depending on who you work for. I can tell you I’ve seen some one man shops do some insanely amazing things that don’t even seem possible who worked for a “legend”. Unfortunately I am sworn to secrecy via contract to go into any more detail than that. But all I will say there are methods used that even the vast majority of the value investing community doesn’t know about to get a real edge.

What you state might be correct, but If I were pitched participation in a one man shop that does amazing things that none of us have heard about, I would decline.

Spekulatius you make a very good point here. An traditional long-only investor who is able to massively outperform the indices year-after-year is enough "a transgression of a law of nature" (to quote David Hume) that one might suspect all sorts of possibilities other than the purported alpha generation.

tol1

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2018, 12:40:40 PM »
Moving the discussion slightly back to the original question. The very few "superinvestors" whom I or my friends/colleagues have met seem to either work with their founding partners only or their initial start-up has evolved to a massive organisation. If one works for the latter, it will be challenging to work directly for the founder/s.

IMO it appears the only way is to "spot" future Klarman's (if there are any at all) - and that is rather speculation. I am just stuck to the notion that it would be most helpful if one worked for a strong, established investor prior to starting and scaling an own shop.

Jurgis

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2018, 01:26:33 PM »
Moving the discussion slightly back to the original question. The very few "superinvestors" whom I or my friends/colleagues have met seem to either work with their founding partners only or their initial start-up has evolved to a massive organisation. If one works for the latter, it will be challenging to work directly for the founder/s.

IMO it appears the only way is to "spot" future Klarman's (if there are any at all) - and that is rather speculation. I am just stuck to the notion that it would be most helpful if one worked for a strong, established investor prior to starting and scaling an own shop.

IMO it really depends on the person and the circumstances. There are people who do just fine by starting their own shop without working elsewhere. There are people who do fine starting their shop after working in corporate not-legendary offices. There are people who do great after working for legends. There are also people who don't do well in exact the same scenarios.

I don't want to psychoanalize - so please forgive me - but it looks like you're looking for others to say "yeah, you have to work for legend first". Yeah, sure working for legend first would open a lot of doors. But you have to realize that percentage-wise the number of people who get to work for legends is very low. So it's up to you to try to get a position with legendary investor, but likely you won't. There's only one Tracy Britt Cool in the last 30 years+ (Todd and Ted don't count - they went to work for Buffett after being successful investors not before). So IMO you're severely handicapping yourself if you think that working for a legend is the only way to get a good career/results/etc.

Edit: regarding spotting-future-Klarman - this is as hard as spotting-future-Klarman to invest with them. I think people already suggested to you to go to BRK/Fairfax/DJCO/BOMN/SYTE/whatever annual investor meetings and network with CoBF/etc/investor/hedge crowd there. This might give you opportunities. You might even corner Whitney Tilson or Mohnish Pabrai in one of these. Though I still think that discovering future Klarman ... and clicking with them enough so that they'll hire you ... is not going to be easy.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 01:51:22 PM by Jurgis »
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winjitsu

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Re: Working for investing legends
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2018, 02:33:42 PM »
Klarman stated in one of his letters that he had a couple interns (or was it new hires) that were HBS with prior banking experience.

I have friends that made to solid funds through the traditional process: investment banking -> fund or banking -> mba -> fund, which is really all about luck on who's hiring and what recruiters you're in touch with.

Edit: I'll add a few more.

Todd Combs cold emailed Charlie Munger for a breakfast meeting
Tracy Britt brought Buffett some corn? http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/warren-buffetts-assistant-is-better-than-you.html
I've seen Li Lu's Himalaya recruiting on Columbia University's job board
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 04:53:29 PM by winjitsu »