Author Topic: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management  (Read 339232 times)

menlo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2013, 12:39:23 PM »
Anyone know anything about Dialectic Capital?  Looks like they've been short BAM for at least a few months:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/11/dialectic-presents-the-confusing-case-of-brookfield-asset-management/


thepupil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2013, 04:58:03 PM »
I hope this gets totally blown out of proportion so that BAM can fall to more attractive prices.

Brookfield's "paper" gains represent real value creation. They buy from distressed sellers, own excellent assets through cycles, and create "pure-play" funds with generous (for the holdco) GP/LP structures.  What is not to like?

Their asset values are supported by market valuations as well as armies of creditors who lend to their subsidiaries on both a single-asset and company level.

If you think trophy real estate, utilities, and the like are expensive because of the search for yield, that is fine. But the author is not seeing the forest through the trees, in my humble opinion.

The spin-off is coming soon (see below). This will create the premier publicly traded property company in the world and will be used as expensive currency to grow BAM's franchise.

 If a holder owns Brookfield Asset Management Class A limited voting shares or Class B limited voting shares as of the close of business on the record date of the special dividend, which is expected to be March 26, 2013, a certificate reflecting the holder’s ownership of our units will be mailed to the holder, or the holder’s brokerage account will be credited for our units, on or about April 15, 2013.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1545772/000119312513092088/d498243d20fr12ba.htm



giofranchi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Twitter: @giovfranchi
    • Master School Politecnico di Milano
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2013, 12:03:50 AM »
Paperworld is the reason why I never got comfortable with BAM.  It was way too difficult for me to put my arms around it and just say "look at the P/B, look at the jockey, get comfortable"

So many entities, complicated org structure, lots of financial engineering. 

I'm not saying it's a fraud, just very difficult to invest for me not knowing all the moving parts.  MKL has family connections though, so they got comfortable.

Yep ShahKhezri, I get what you're saying.

However, I believe most investors suffer from an illusion that they understand more than they really do.  Most companies are highly complex and we just don't understand the minutiae of what makes the company really special or indeed those at risk.

For example, take Coke.  A great brand right?  But how much is the brand and how much is distribution and other factors that we can't quite put our finger on?  Neville Isdell headed up Coke's Philippines operations in the early 1980s.  At the time, Pepsi dominated the Philippines and looked to have an unassailable lead.  Within a couple of years Isdell had turned the situation on its head and it is certain that his success had a lot to do with figuring out Coke's distribution (which I think involved poaching a few of Pepsi's larger distributors).  A more current example is how Pepsi looks to have lost its dominant position in Thailand because its distributor Serm Suk has stopped distributing its products and has instead launched a new cola brand Est.  Of course, it remains to be seen how Est fares in the long run, but my point is that companies are generally complex and our "System 1" (from Daniel Khaneman) is prone to jumping to overly-simplified analysis.

Brookfield Asset Management is in-your-face complex, but in reality perhaps not any more so than your average company.  And given how much stock that management owns, I judge that this complexity is for my benefit as a shareholder alongside them.

This is more than you can say for most companies!

I think the idea very well expressed by WhoIsWarren here is extremely important. And I couldn’t agree with him more! I think many business owners understand this, but among investors it is more easily overlooked. Imo, with the consequence of running unjustified risks. That’s why my circle of competence is still so much narrow and limited!

giofranchi

“As time goes on I get more and more convinced that the right method in investment is to put fairly large sums into enterprises which one thinks one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes. It is a mistake to think that one limits one’s risk by spreading too much between enterprises about which one knows little and has no reason for special confidence.” - John Maynard Keynes
Portfolio: AAPL, AMZN, BABA, BOSS, BRK.B, FB, FFH, FIH.U, FINX, FWONA, GOOG, IBB, JPM, LBRDA, MKL, NKE, QQQ, SFTBF, SMH, TCEHY, V, XBI, XT

WhoIsWarren

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2013, 01:02:55 AM »
Anyone know anything about Dialectic Capital?  Looks like they've been short BAM for at least a few months:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/11/dialectic-presents-the-confusing-case-of-brookfield-asset-management/

Not much, but here's a bit of background on Dialectic Capital from Valuewalk (including a short synopsis on the BAM short).

http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/05/dialectic-capital-short-cast-hlf-bam-china-and-canadian-housing/


WhoIsWarren

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2013, 04:07:29 AM »
Anyone know anything about Dialectic Capital?  Looks like they've been short BAM for at least a few months:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/11/dialectic-presents-the-confusing-case-of-brookfield-asset-management/

Not much, but here's a bit of background on Dialectic Capital from Valuewalk (including a short synopsis on the BAM short).

http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/05/dialectic-capital-short-cast-hlf-bam-china-and-canadian-housing/


Doh!! Sorry Menlo, just realising that you already posted the valuewalk link!!  That's what happens when you try doing things in a hurry.

According to Bloomberg, there were 3.4 million shares reported short, or 0.7% of total outstanding, as of end-Feb 2013.  That's double the short interest as of 15th Feb.  Still small, but worth watching.


giofranchi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Twitter: @giovfranchi
    • Master School Politecnico di Milano
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2013, 03:47:08 AM »
Is It Fair To Attack Brookfield

giofranchi

“As time goes on I get more and more convinced that the right method in investment is to put fairly large sums into enterprises which one thinks one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes. It is a mistake to think that one limits one’s risk by spreading too much between enterprises about which one knows little and has no reason for special confidence.” - John Maynard Keynes
Portfolio: AAPL, AMZN, BABA, BOSS, BRK.B, FB, FFH, FIH.U, FINX, FWONA, GOOG, IBB, JPM, LBRDA, MKL, NKE, QQQ, SFTBF, SMH, TCEHY, V, XBI, XT

giofranchi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Twitter: @giovfranchi
    • Master School Politecnico di Milano
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2013, 04:13:43 AM »
I would like to remember that from page 149 to page 153 of “There’s Always Something to Do – The Peter Cundill Investment Approach” Mr. Risso-Gill describes Mr. Cundill’s large investment in Brascan, the former Brookfield Asset Management.
It seems that in 2000 and 2001 Mr. Cundill had great confidence in Brascan management.
Of course, I cannot say if in the 10 years since then things have significantly changed for the worse…

giofranchi

“As time goes on I get more and more convinced that the right method in investment is to put fairly large sums into enterprises which one thinks one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes. It is a mistake to think that one limits one’s risk by spreading too much between enterprises about which one knows little and has no reason for special confidence.” - John Maynard Keynes
Portfolio: AAPL, AMZN, BABA, BOSS, BRK.B, FB, FFH, FIH.U, FINX, FWONA, GOOG, IBB, JPM, LBRDA, MKL, NKE, QQQ, SFTBF, SMH, TCEHY, V, XBI, XT

giofranchi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5509
  • Twitter: @giovfranchi
    • Master School Politecnico di Milano
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2013, 12:08:54 AM »
WhoIsWarren,
what bothers me about BAM is that I do not understand why it takes so much time to answer SIRF… I mean, BAM should understand how difficult it really is to know the true market value of the great majority of their assets, right? The market values of an office tower in Texas, a railroad or a port in Australia, an highway in Brazil, or an hydroelectric power plant in Canada, are not simply quoted on a stock exchange, right? So, their market values, estimated and reported by BAM, cannot easily be checked. Com’n! I have a hell of an hard time estimating the market value of a flat in downtown Milan… because it depends on a lot of different variables (the quality of the building, the development of its neighborhood, etc.). BAM should know that, if there is one thing which could attract criticism, it is how they estimate and report the market value of their assets. Therefore, if some doubts are raised, BAM should hasten to quell them! So, why are they so slow in answering SIRF publicly?

giofranchi

“As time goes on I get more and more convinced that the right method in investment is to put fairly large sums into enterprises which one thinks one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes. It is a mistake to think that one limits one’s risk by spreading too much between enterprises about which one knows little and has no reason for special confidence.” - John Maynard Keynes
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 12:20:47 AM by giofranchi »
Portfolio: AAPL, AMZN, BABA, BOSS, BRK.B, FB, FFH, FIH.U, FINX, FWONA, GOOG, IBB, JPM, LBRDA, MKL, NKE, QQQ, SFTBF, SMH, TCEHY, V, XBI, XT

berkshiremystery

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 834
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2013, 01:33:27 AM »
Is It Fair To Attack Brookfield

giofranchi

“As time goes on I get more and more convinced that the right method in investment is to put fairly large sums into enterprises which one thinks one knows something about and in the management of which one thoroughly believes. It is a mistake to think that one limits one’s risk by spreading too much between enterprises about which one knows little and has no reason for special confidence.” - John Maynard Keynes



Gio,...

I hadn't the time to read all of the most recent posts about BAM in this thread, but only seeing in the second paragraph of your uploaded file the author name "Roddy Boyd" of this mysterious research study send all my common sense alarm signs on. All old board members might still remember, that this Roddy Boyd was one of the reporters in the short and distort smear campaign of criminal hedge funds against Fairfax years ago. It seems to me that Boyd and his friends just try to hunt for an easy victim, a company with a complicated structure, that is for outsiders difficult to understand. You should make at first some deep research into the persona Roddy Boyd himself and his old activities in the Fairfax campaign years ago before you make any conclusion about BAM. To me Boyd's integrity seems tarnished forever with the same behavior patterns that he had in his old Fairfax campaign. Maybe he seems to stage another "Project Fairfax", only this time it's called "Project BAM", and Boyd's  hedge fund friends might have already profited handsomely by driving the share price down.

You might search his name on this board...

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/general-discussion/deepcapture's-final-chapters-on-dendreon/msg8008/#msg8008

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/fairfax-financial/ffh-news-on-lawsuit/msg86436/#msg86436

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/general-discussion/another-overstock-hatchet-job/msg14675/#msg14675

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/fairfax-financial/the-miracle-on-wellington-street/msg78352/#msg78352


-----

Here I might add the links to Body's report about BAM

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1263461-the-paper-world-of-brookfield-asset-management?source=yahoo

http://sirf-online.org/2013/03/11/paper-world-of-brookfield-asset-management/

« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 05:52:13 AM by berkshiremystery »

Christopher1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
Re: BAM - Brookfield Asset Management
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2013, 03:10:47 AM »
Attached the detailed answer to Mr. Boyd by BAM.