Author Topic: CHTR - Charter Communications  (Read 182627 times)

BG2008

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #690 on: September 19, 2018, 01:18:57 AM »
Neither Verizon, nor Charter nor Comcast have given any details on the MVNO relationship.  There is a big question in my mind as to whether it would cover 5G or just the existing 4G/LTE assets.  If it covers 5G, the competitive.dynamic for cablecos is much better over.the medium term.  If not.....

I am making my investment under the assumption that the MVNO only covers the 4G LTE service.  I believe that is the existing relationship.


cameronfen

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #691 on: September 19, 2018, 05:16:38 AM »
Sure I'm not arguing the Charter has a sweet deal right now being able to rent telecom assets at regulated prices while having sole ownership of its fiber assets, but a.) if charter has too much sucess with this approach (which is not a guarantee as how many people switch to mvnos actually even among us investors who know they have the same assets), it's a relatively easy case for telecoms to argue that they should have free access to fiber at regulated prices.  That being said the more important argument is that while Charter likely has an advantage now, the long term and structural advantage goes to whoever develops wireless broadband.

Where are you getting this information?  Charter does not rent telecom assets under regulated prices...  its MVNO deal was privately negotiated as part of a sale of spectrum in 2011.

Right that's correct I forgot about this case, However,  I think by law though telecoms have to rent the telecom assets to mvnos at a price that if can't be negotiated will be set by government, but this is slightly different.  My point here though is the government is basically forcing telecoms to rent to charter and other mvnos and that could be problematic when charter gets to successful in the mobile space. 

glorysk87

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #692 on: September 19, 2018, 06:26:05 AM »
I'm out and about and don't want to fool with logging into some random wifi to save 50mb of data typically.

I believe if you download the Spectrum iOS or Android app and install the Spectrum profile it will automatically detect and connect to hotspots when you're out and about, rather than you having to manually do it.

jmp8822

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #693 on: September 19, 2018, 06:28:06 AM »
I'm out and about and don't want to fool with logging into some random wifi to save 50mb of data typically.

I believe if you download the Spectrum iOS or Android app and install the Spectrum profile it will automatically detect and connect to hotspots when you're out and about, rather than you having to manually do it.

That makes much more sense thanks.

KJP

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #694 on: September 19, 2018, 08:02:41 AM »
Sure I'm not arguing the Charter has a sweet deal right now being able to rent telecom assets at regulated prices while having sole ownership of its fiber assets, but a.) if charter has too much sucess with this approach (which is not a guarantee as how many people switch to mvnos actually even among us investors who know they have the same assets), it's a relatively easy case for telecoms to argue that they should have free access to fiber at regulated prices.  That being said the more important argument is that while Charter likely has an advantage now, the long term and structural advantage goes to whoever develops wireless broadband.

Where are you getting this information?  Charter does not rent telecom assets under regulated prices...  its MVNO deal was privately negotiated as part of a sale of spectrum in 2011.

Right that's correct I forgot about this case, However,  I think by law though telecoms have to rent the telecom assets to mvnos at a price that if can't be negotiated will be set by government, but this is slightly different.  My point here though is the government is basically forcing telecoms to rent to charter and other mvnos and that could be problematic when charter gets to successful in the mobile space.

I'm not aware of any obligation in the United States to provide network access to an MNVO, nor any regulation of the wholesale rates negotiated between mobile network operators and MVNOs.  (The FCC does require interconnection among wireless  networks, i.e., "roaming," at commercially reasonable rates.)  Indeed, some of the commentary around a potential Sprint-T-Mobile merger is that wholesale rates should be regulated in the future because those two are big suppliers to MVNOs.  For example, here's one argument that Sprint and T-Mobile should not be permitted to merge without a new wholesale pricing regulatory regime being put in place:  https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/05/21/1509213/0/en/Founder-and-Former-CEO-of-Boost-Mobile-USA-Raises-Concerns-that-Prepaid-Customers-are-Being-Forgotten-in-Sprint-T-Mobile-Merger-Plan.html

If you are aware of any source discussing the regulation of wholesale rates charged by MNOs to MVNOs, I'd be very interested to see it.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 08:08:04 AM by KJP »

Liberty

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #695 on: September 19, 2018, 08:26:22 AM »
Charter and Comcast have access to MVNO from Verizon because of a 2011 deal:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/charter-ceo-now-we-own-twc-we-can-use-verizon-mvno-deal-to-offer-nationwide-wireless

Quote
The Verizon agreement in question refers to a 2011 deal in which Verizon purchased AWS-1 spectrum from Bright House Networks, Comcast, Cox and TWC (a group dubbed SpectrumCo) and in return gave those companies access to its wireless network for use in a potential MVNO offering.
"Most haystacks don't even have a needle." |  I'm on Twitter  | Interesting podcast on aging research

dwy000

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #696 on: September 19, 2018, 08:28:59 AM »
Sure I'm not arguing the Charter has a sweet deal right now being able to rent telecom assets at regulated prices while having sole ownership of its fiber assets, but a.) if charter has too much sucess with this approach (which is not a guarantee as how many people switch to mvnos actually even among us investors who know they have the same assets), it's a relatively easy case for telecoms to argue that they should have free access to fiber at regulated prices.  That being said the more important argument is that while Charter likely has an advantage now, the long term and structural advantage goes to whoever develops wireless broadband.

Where are you getting this information?  Charter does not rent telecom assets under regulated prices...  its MVNO deal was privately negotiated as part of a sale of spectrum in 2011.

Right that's correct I forgot about this case, However,  I think by law though telecoms have to rent the telecom assets to mvnos at a price that if can't be negotiated will be set by government, but this is slightly different.  My point here though is the government is basically forcing telecoms to rent to charter and other mvnos and that could be problematic when charter gets to successful in the mobile space.

I'm not aware of any obligation in the United States to provide network access to an MNVO, nor any regulation of the wholesale rates negotiated between mobile network operators and MVNOs.  (The FCC does require interconnection among wireless  networks, i.e., "roaming," at commercially reasonable rates.)  Indeed, some of the commentary around a potential Sprint-T-Mobile merger is that wholesale rates should be regulated in the future because those two are big suppliers to MVNOs.  For example, here's one argument that Sprint and T-Mobile should not be permitted to merge without a new wholesale pricing regulatory regime being put in place:  https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/05/21/1509213/0/en/Founder-and-Former-CEO-of-Boost-Mobile-USA-Raises-Concerns-that-Prepaid-Customers-are-Being-Forgotten-in-Sprint-T-Mobile-Merger-Plan.html

If you are aware of any source discussing the regulation of wholesale rates charged by MNOs to MVNOs, I'd be very interested to see it.

The requirement is under Title II of the Communications Act which requires incubmbent carriers to provide wholesale access at cost based rates to new entrants.  Historically this applied to voice and there were questions as to whether that covered data.  In 2015 when the FCC applied Net Neutrality they did so with a broad brush by having internet/data governed by Title II (which incorporates a huge amount of potential gov't control well beyond Net Neutrality - gov't can regulate access, price, investment, etc).  While the FCC now is seeking to reverse the Net Neutrality requirements there's a question of whether that is going to be specific to Net Neutrality or if they are entirely exempting internet/data from Title II regulation.

As John Malone has said repeatedly, you want to own your network or you are at the mercy of the people who do.  There have been very, very few MVNO's in the US that have been successful over the long term.

KJP

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #697 on: September 19, 2018, 08:37:55 AM »
Charter and Comcast have access to MVNO from Verizon because of a 2011 deal:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/charter-ceo-now-we-own-twc-we-can-use-verizon-mvno-deal-to-offer-nationwide-wireless

Quote
The Verizon agreement in question refers to a 2011 deal in which Verizon purchased AWS-1 spectrum from Bright House Networks, Comcast, Cox and TWC (a group dubbed SpectrumCo) and in return gave those companies access to its wireless network for use in a potential MVNO offering.

I know.  I was responding to the suggestion that, in general, the US requires mandatory network access to MVNOs at regulated rates.

dwy000

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #698 on: September 19, 2018, 08:40:47 AM »
Quote from Malone back in 2017:

"We fundamentally believe we can make money for the shareholders through a wireless offering with the unique relationship that we have with the Verizon MVNO," Comcast Chairman and CEO Brian Roberts said in his most recent quarterly earnings call. "We can't go into detail about that relationship for obvious reasons, but we have the ability to do things that we think put us in a position to make that statement come true and create real value for our shareholders along the way."
Malone, however, said he believes that it's more likely that consolidation will take place among wireless and cable providers, rather than cable companies launching their own wireless networks.
"At some point, the [wireless] network that's supplying that to you is unhappy with you becoming a full competitor on their capital assets. And you start to get squeezed. You also don't have the ability to innovate services, because you're essentially a reseller of their service," he said.
Malone pointed to further and more aggressive relationships between cable and wireless companies as a solution to that problem.
"It's fine for Charter and Comcast to go down the MVNO road for a while, particular in the [business-to-business] world, because they have a great relationship with Verizon, which is the best technology network," he said. "So you can start that way, but my belief is they will have to have a much deeper relationship with Verizon in the long run to make that work."

walkie518

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Re: CHTR - Charter Communications
« Reply #699 on: September 19, 2018, 08:58:29 AM »
Quote from Malone back in 2017:

"We fundamentally believe we can make money for the shareholders through a wireless offering with the unique relationship that we have with the Verizon MVNO," Comcast Chairman and CEO Brian Roberts said in his most recent quarterly earnings call. "We can't go into detail about that relationship for obvious reasons, but we have the ability to do things that we think put us in a position to make that statement come true and create real value for our shareholders along the way."
Malone, however, said he believes that it's more likely that consolidation will take place among wireless and cable providers, rather than cable companies launching their own wireless networks.
"At some point, the [wireless] network that's supplying that to you is unhappy with you becoming a full competitor on their capital assets. And you start to get squeezed. You also don't have the ability to innovate services, because you're essentially a reseller of their service," he said.
Malone pointed to further and more aggressive relationships between cable and wireless companies as a solution to that problem.
"It's fine for Charter and Comcast to go down the MVNO road for a while, particular in the [business-to-business] world, because they have a great relationship with Verizon, which is the best technology network," he said. "So you can start that way, but my belief is they will have to have a much deeper relationship with Verizon in the long run to make that work."
Not sure why Masa didn't jump for Charter at Malone's price?  The cost to Sprint/Tmobile will be immense ...