Author Topic: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.  (Read 47044 times)

constructive

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd. (& the Jackman's)
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2013, 10:37:02 AM »
Since 1969, they have increased book value by 12.2% annualized, correct?

Very good but not quite in the league of Berkshire or Fairfax. On the other hand, considering their size and new cash opportunity they might be positioned as well as Berkshire and Fairfax to hit 12% in the future.


berkshiremystery

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd. (& the Jackman's)
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2013, 10:52:02 AM »
Since 1969, they have increased book value by 12.2% annualized, correct?

Very good but not quite in the league of Berkshire or Fairfax. On the other hand, considering their size and new cash opportunity they might be positioned as well as Berkshire and Fairfax to hit 12% in the future.

They had in 1969 net common shareholders equity of      21,447,000
and have grown this equity in 2012 to about              2,981,537,000.

Maybe not quite impressive as BRK or FFH, but certainly at a good rate.
You should note that ELF recently traded not long ago at about half book value,
so a hypothetical 10% ROE would translate on half book value to about a 20% return  ;)
We have seen BAC and AIG some 12-18 months ago on a similar cheap scale with a comparable
hypothetical future ROE assumption.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 11:30:40 AM by berkshiremystery »

mranski

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2013, 01:24:48 PM »

I believe they are involved with this company


http://www.ucorp.ca/ucl_nh.htm

benhacker

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2013, 02:18:25 PM »
I think this was covered a few times on the old BRK board...

I thought it was covered here by Ron(?), but maybe I was thinking of the reference to Norm's article.

I have owned shares since 2010.  50-60% of effective book while their CEFs and hold co buy shares slowly is pretty low risk.  They seem kind of like Loews to me.  They won't shoot the lights out, but they are shareholder friendly and at a big book discount they will buyback.  Low risk good reward and tax efficient.

thanks for posting BRK Mystery.

Ben
Ben Hacker
Beaverton, Oregon - USA

berkshiremystery

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2013, 04:39:53 PM »
Here's some biographical video about Hal Jackman. His son Duncan N. R. Jackman, the current CEO of E-L Financial also speaks in the video about his dad.

The Hon Henry N R Jackman - 2005 Champion of Public Education - The Learning Partnership
YouTube.com (6:28min Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtSNHGdV5A8













berkshiremystery

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2013, 04:53:24 PM »

I believe they are involved with this company


http://www.ucorp.ca/ucl_nh.htm

E-L Financial operates as an investment and insurance holding company. It operates in three business segments:

- E-L Corporate,
- The Dominion and
- Empire Life.

The Company invests in equities and fixed income securities directly, and indirectly, through pooled funds, closed-end investment companies and other investment companies (E-L Corporate).

E-L Corporate investments include:
- United Corporations Ltd. (United),
- Economic Investment Trust Ltd. (Economic) and
- Algoma Central Corp. (Algoma).

The investments - corporate portfolio includes short-term deposits, common shares in public and private companies, units in pooled funds and units in a common contractual fund.

The Company owns
100% of The Dominion of Canada General Insurance Company (The Dominion) and
80%  of  The Empire Life Insurance Company (Empire Life).

Economic and United are both closed-end investment companies and Algoma is a shipping company.

NormR

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd. (& the Jackman's)
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 08:07:15 PM »
Thanks NormR and berkshiremystery, ELF seems like a really interesting idea.

I was just wondering if either of you have attended any of their annual meetings and maybe met the owners and management? If so, it'd be much appreciated if I could get either of your (or anyone else's) impressions of them.

It's essentially a family company and I don't have any particular insight into the clan. 

As others have pointed out, they seem to be sensible investors but not as good as the folks at FFH/BRK/etc. 

The company falls into the generally undervalued bucket for me.  While I only hold a few shares, I like the company more as time goes on.  Just keep in mind that it was much less expensive not that long ago. 

berkshiremystery

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd. (& the Jackman's)
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2013, 05:50:19 AM »
Thanks NormR and berkshiremystery, ELF seems like a really interesting idea.

I was just wondering if either of you have attended any of their annual meetings and maybe met the owners and management? If so, it'd be much appreciated if I could get either of your (or anyone else's) impressions of them.

It's essentially a family company and I don't have any particular insight into the clan. 

As others have pointed out, they seem to be sensible investors but not as good as the folks at FFH/BRK/etc. 

The company falls into the generally undervalued bucket for me.  While I only hold a few shares, I like the company more as time goes on.  Just keep in mind that it was much less expensive not that long ago.

I would in general agree with Norm. Therefore I would put them at the last end/level of the chain of  those jockey stocks. I mean on the last level,... in relative long term book value growth over the decades. From 1969 to 2012,... over a hundredfold increase in common shareholders equity ($21M - $2.9B). BRK & FFH were compounding their equity on a much more compressed bases, faster and much steeper.

So my overview below applies only for their long term book value growth and their managerial skills of growing BV.

1) BRK
2) FFH,
3) ... LUK & MKL
4) ELF


But ELF has been quite undervalued in the last 12 months ($450-550, currently around $645), and were trading way, way below their intrinsic value (book value currently around $790 something, and rising) on a relative bases compared with BRK, FFH. So therefore ELF was only catching up. Of course they are currently not as cheaply anymore. I would consider them for any investors long term watch list, and of course only strike the perfect pitch, if they trade extremly depressed. A family run insurer that might be capable to achive a hypothetical 10% ROE trading extremely below book should give some good margin of safety in certain depressed market situations.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 05:53:50 AM by berkshiremystery »

StubbleJumper

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd. (& the Jackman's)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2013, 05:54:31 AM »
Thanks NormR and berkshiremystery, ELF seems like a really interesting idea.

I was just wondering if either of you have attended any of their annual meetings and maybe met the owners and management? If so, it'd be much appreciated if I could get either of your (or anyone else's) impressions of them.

It's essentially a family company and I don't have any particular insight into the clan. 

As others have pointed out, they seem to be sensible investors but not as good as the folks at FFH/BRK/etc. 

The company falls into the generally undervalued bucket for me.  While I only hold a few shares, I like the company more as time goes on.  Just keep in mind that it was much less expensive not that long ago.


IMO, it was much less expensive a couple of months ago because the $1.1B that they'll receive in the fall for the Dominion company is nearly enough to take this sucker private....  So, if they do opt to take the $1.1B, add a wee bit of debt and take it private, what price to they offer?  Adjusted BV per share is still north of the current market price.  Would the current market price of ~$645+30% do it?  That would roughly equate to adjusted BV....

SJ

berkshiremystery

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 06:16:17 AM »
Thanks NormR and berkshiremystery, ELF seems like a really interesting idea.

I was just wondering if either of you have attended any of their annual meetings and maybe met the owners and management? If so, it'd be much appreciated if I could get either of your (or anyone else's) impressions of them.

It's essentially a family company and I don't have any particular insight into the clan. 

As others have pointed out, they seem to be sensible investors but not as good as the folks at FFH/BRK/etc. 

The company falls into the generally undervalued bucket for me.  While I only hold a few shares, I like the company more as time goes on.  Just keep in mind that it was much less expensive not that long ago.


IMO, it was much less expensive a couple of months ago because the $1.1B that they'll receive in the fall for the Dominion company is nearly enough to take this sucker private....  So, if they do opt to take the $1.1B, add a wee bit of debt and take it private, what price to they offer?  Adjusted BV per share is still north of the current market price.  Would the current market price of ~$645+30% do it?  That would roughly equate to adjusted BV....

SJ

If you have hawk like eyes, you might also see that certain holdings are also quite below their actual intrinsic value. Just have a look at United Corps.  ;)

ELF owns more than half of United Corporations, a closed end fund that’s been around for almost a century and which is now consolidated at the E-L level.

1st qtr 2013 common equity $860.85 M
  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/markets/stocks/financials/?q=UNC-T&page=balanceSheet&frequency=QUARTERLY#financials-content

July 26, 2013 market cap $769.45 M
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/markets/stocks/summary/?q=UNC-T

------

No way that E-L Financial and asset flipper can be used in the same sentence
2013-06-10 NationalPost
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/10/no-way-that-e-l-financial-and-asset-flipper-can-be-used-in-the-same-sentence/

In what seems like a Buffet-like approach to selling parts of the overall business, E-L announced Monday the sale of its The Dominion of Canada General Insurance Co. to the Travelers Companies Inc. – a $1.125 billion divestiture.

“We are extremely proud of what The Dominion team has achieved over the years. We could not be happier that Travelers, a highly respected and well capitalized firm, will be the platform for future growth and success,” stated Duncan Jackman, E-L Financial’s chief executive officer and Hal’s son. The company was formed in 1887.











« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 06:30:33 AM by berkshiremystery »