Author Topic: LUK - Leucadia  (Read 400303 times)

benhacker

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1150 on: March 02, 2017, 09:58:17 AM »
Quote
I didn't size it up the common big in early 2016, but was pounding the table on the bonds and to a lesser degree the stock in 2016 and there were a lot of vocal, bulled up posters (benhacker comes to mind). I think when I first bought it in the mid 20's I was a bit more optimistic than I am now. I sold the bonds at par and am considering trimming the common to a quasi-permanent smaller position and wait to see how everything evolves. Could still make a credible case for $35-$40, but it's obviously less exciting and priced for less shitty things happening than at $16. At $16 you could writeoff a ton of their assets completely and still be okay (see above)

That was a long and self-centric way of saying I don't think the value investing community has at all given up on LUK. I think most have tempered expectations given the  hit rate and frustrating tendency for negative surprises, but "given up" seems too strong.

Late 2015/early 2016 and the "Leucadia is not longer loveable" article in barrons/wsj was the point where "the market" had given up, but many here had not.

Thanks Pupil.

I would also like to thank you for repeatedly pounding on the bonds which I think made me and (maybe) Picasso take a look.  I didn't swap my common to bonds, but I did put huge portions of the two income accounts I manage into the '43's (around $85) and some of the '23's (around $90).  I probably would have been too focused on common if you hadn't hit us all upside the head about the risk / reward which was arguably superior. (I am still holding those bonds for those accounts).

I did keep building the common all the way down and some on the way up as well, but it was quite frustrating to see that report for Q4 in early '16 and feel good about a 20% position..... but still, I was buying that day.

I tend to agree with you that many will be interested in getting back into LUK as a "compounder" once the financials are cleaner... but either way, been an interesting ride so far.

Cheers,
Ben Hacker
Beaverton, Oregon - USA


greenwave

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1151 on: March 03, 2017, 07:43:48 AM »
"I sold the bonds at par and am considering trimming the common to a quasi-permanent smaller position and wait to see how everything evolves. "

Pupil,

Do you know if both LUK bonds are now trading at ,... - or close to par ?   

Thank you ,

greenwave



Quote
I didn't size it up the common big in early 2016, but was pounding the table on the bonds and to a lesser degree the stock in 2016 and there were a lot of vocal, bulled up posters (benhacker comes to mind). I think when I first bought it in the mid 20's I was a bit more optimistic than I am now. I sold the bonds at par and am considering trimming the common to a quasi-permanent smaller position and wait to see how everything evolves. Could still make a credible case for $35-$40, but it's obviously less exciting and priced for less shitty things happening than at $16. At $16 you could writeoff a ton of their assets completely and still be okay (see above)

That was a long and self-centric way of saying I don't think the value investing community has at all given up on LUK. I think most have tempered expectations given the  hit rate and frustrating tendency for negative surprises, but "given up" seems too strong.

Late 2015/early 2016 and the "Leucadia is not longer loveable" article in barrons/wsj was the point where "the market" had given up, but many here had not.

Thanks Pupil.

I would also like to thank you for repeatedly pounding on the bonds which I think made me and (maybe) Picasso take a look.  I didn't swap my common to bonds, but I did put huge portions of the two income accounts I manage into the '43's (around $85) and some of the '23's (around $90).  I probably would have been too focused on common if you hadn't hit us all upside the head about the risk / reward which was arguably superior. (I am still holding those bonds for those accounts).

I did keep building the common all the way down and some on the way up as well, but it was quite frustrating to see that report for Q4 in early '16 and feel good about a 20% position..... but still, I was buying that day.

I tend to agree with you that many will be interested in getting back into LUK as a "compounder" once the financials are cleaner... but either way, been an interesting ride so far.

Cheers,

benhacker

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1152 on: March 03, 2017, 07:52:27 AM »
'23's are at $105, '43's are at $99.
Ben Hacker
Beaverton, Oregon - USA

greenwave

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1153 on: March 03, 2017, 12:38:49 PM »
Thank you benhacker,

Hopefully the spread tightening that much over your holding time period is indicative of more confidence (by the  bond market ) in LUK’s eventual return to sustainable longer term profitability !

greenwave


'23's are at $105, '43's are at $99.

educatedidiot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1154 on: May 15, 2017, 08:12:20 AM »
Leucadia Q1 13-F is out: http://www.rocketfinancial.com/Holdings.aspx?fID=378 

They bought YHOO, FRGI, RAI, TWX, and sold their MON among others.

benhacker

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 783
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1155 on: May 15, 2017, 05:11:45 PM »
Leucadia Q1 13-F is out: http://www.rocketfinancial.com/Holdings.aspx?fID=378 

They bought YHOO, FRGI, RAI, TWX, and sold their MON among others.

I don't think the LUK 13-F is relevant.  Note the sizes of the positions you are talking about.  This is JEF prop trading.
Ben Hacker
Beaverton, Oregon - USA

educatedidiot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1156 on: May 15, 2017, 05:26:47 PM »
A lot of the reported positions on the LUK 13-F are likely JEF prop trading, however I don't believe that the Fiesta Restaurant Group (FRGI) one is.  There are a few others too, but that's the only new one I believe.

Value^2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1157 on: May 21, 2017, 06:20:12 AM »
A lot of the reported positions on the LUK 13-F are likely JEF prop trading, however I don't believe that the Fiesta Restaurant Group (FRGI) one is. There are a few others too, but that's the only new one I believe.


Mr. Brian Paul Friedman, CPA, J.D., is the Founder of Jefferies Capital Partners and serves as its President. Mr. Friedman has been the President at Leucadia National Corporation since March 1, 2013 and has been its Director since March 1, 2013. He served as a Treasurer at Biomarin Pediatrics II, Inc. Mr. Friedman founded Furman Selz Investments LLC in 1994 and served as its President. He was an Executive Vice President at Furman Selz LLC for more than the five years. Mr. Friedman also served as its Head of Investment Banking for seven years. He was employed at ABN AMRO Securities LLC. Mr. Friedman also served as the President at ING Barings Private Equity and Attorney at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz. He has been a Director of Jefferies Group LLC since July 2005. He has been a Director of FastMatch Inc. since February 07, 2017. Mr. Friedman has been a Director of K-Sea General Partner GP LLC since July 2003. He serves on the boards of directors of Acapulco Restaurants, Inc., Au Bon Pain Corporation, Bricsnet N.V., California Pizza Kitchen, Inc., Cognitive Arts, Inc., and Idb Carries B.V. Mr. Friedman also serves on the boards of managers of Apartment Media Works LLC, Beacon Industrial Group LLC and Stagebill Llc. He has been a Director of Carrols Corporation since July 2009. Mr. Friedman serves on the board of directors of the Coast Distribution System and on the board of a number of private companies. He has been a Director of HomeFed Corporation since April 22, 2014 and Fiesta Restaurant Group, Inc. since April 2011. Mr. Friedman served as the Chairman of the Board of Telex Communications Intermediate Holdings, LLC and Telex Communications, Inc. since November 2003. He served as a Director of K-Sea Transportation L.P., since 2004 until 2011, Pacific Basin Shipping Ltd from July 2004 to May 17, 2006, Real Mex Restaurants, Inc. from October 1998 to July 12, 2006, Carrols Restaurant Group, Inc., from July 02, 2009 to May 7, 2012, StarBand Communications Inc. since April 2000, Windstream Iowa Communications, Inc from July 2000 to November 09, 2005, Transcisco Industries Inc. since August 31, 1995 and Telex Communications, Inc since November 2001. Mr. Friedman is a C.P.A. charter holder. He earned a J.D. from School Of Law, Columbia University in 1980, Master of Science in Accounting from University of Pennsylvania in 1977 and Bachelor of Science degree in Economics from the same university.

Jurgis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3580
    • Porfolio
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1158 on: July 22, 2017, 08:19:12 AM »
FYI today's Barron's are pushing LUK as mini-Berk with some SOP valuation.

Disclosure: No position, no interest.

no_free_lunch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
Re: LUK - Leucadia
« Reply #1159 on: January 08, 2018, 06:54:07 PM »
Quote
Leucadia National Corp. is exploring a sale of part or all of its stake in its National Beef Packing Co. unit, one of the biggest U.S. meat-processing companies, people familiar with the matter said.

Leucadia owns a 79% stake in the Kansas City, Mo.-based beef giant, a 26-year-old supplier of steaks, hamburger and other beef products. A sale would see Leucadia exit a big bet on beef at a time when the industry is rebounding from a rough patch, thanks to rising consumer demand and cheap grain prices.
..
In 2016, National Beef swung to a $329 million profit, and over the first three quarters of 2017 National Beef’s profit jumped 61% to $310 million from the same period in the prior year. In a regulatory filing, Leucadia listed the net book value of its National Beef investment at $629.8 million as of Dec. 31, 2016.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/leucadia-exploring-sale-of-meat-processor-national-beef-1515444653