Author Topic: KMI - Kinder Morgan  (Read 134373 times)

John Hjorth

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #410 on: April 17, 2018, 01:56:05 PM »
That's actually an interesting idea, Cardboard. Where there is will there is always a way.

In fact, you actually don't need an ice breaker to do this. If a ship is heavy enough [deplacement empty], and with enough output [power] from the propulsion engine, that ship can be designed with ice breaking capabilities. It would be yummy for every very skilled naval achitect and structural ship design engineer to design such an enormous nuclear powered sucker. It's all about hull shape [primary the bow] and stregth of hull structure [dimensions of applied materials and choise of structural design].

- - - o 0 o - - -

Right now, a row of six AOPS [Arctic and Offshore Patrol ship] are under construction at Halifax Shipyard [a sub of J.D. Irving Inc.] in Halifax, NS. Those six thingies are about 100 metres of length [so basically rowing boats compared to a tanker], purpose: To maintain Candian sovereignty in the waters surrounding Canada, to be equipped basically with a sling gun in the bow, only. With ice breaking capabilities.

Video on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/227461019 .
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 02:05:21 PM by John Hjorth »
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rb

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #411 on: April 17, 2018, 02:16:57 PM »
Yep, ice breaking supertankers. What could possibly go wrong?

John Hjorth

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #412 on: April 17, 2018, 02:23:43 PM »
Yep, ice breaking supertankers. What could possibly go wrong?

A lot, as it already has in history. Just put Mr. Taleb on the design team, too. As a free gift for us all, he will - at least for some period - not have time attacking BS'ers on Twitter and some other places, i.e. FB and Medium.

Not more crazy than building sky scrapers in Los Angeles.
”In the race of excellence … there is no finish line.”
-HH Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates and Ruler of Dubai

Cardboard

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #413 on: April 17, 2018, 02:25:18 PM »
So the Prairies don't need to order ice breakers. There are already two of these 6 that belong to them once finished.

Cardboard

RichardGibbons

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #414 on: April 17, 2018, 03:24:56 PM »
The really interesting thing about this thread is the way it illustrates the tragedy of the commons.  Because Cardboard's argument is right: it's in Alberta's best interest to pump and sell as much oil as they can. It's also in America's best interest, Russia's best interest, and China's best interest....  It's in the best interest of any state that produces oil.

I've been wondering for a long time whether individual economics would trump shared destruction. I was pretty confident that the human species is smart enough to see the threat and work together to address the issue. But to me now, it looks like that won't actually be what happens.

Thus, instead of this problem being solved by the world co-operating, I now think it'll be solved by a subset of the population creating the technology that makes Alberta's oil non-economic. Alberta, having spent its resources on outdated technology, will have a much higher chance of becoming the province that needs equalization payments. It reminds me of another recent tragedy of the commons, the Atlantic fisheries.

It's not clear to me how much damage will be done before we reach the place where the demand for oil plummets, but I think it's unlikely to be something that threatens the extinction of humanity as some environmentalist rhetoric seems to imply.

Cardboard

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #415 on: April 17, 2018, 04:16:27 PM »
Regarding extinction of humanity don't you think that a conflict with Russia, AI taking over, a virus or a large solar mass ejection toward Earth have a much greater chance of wiping out most humans and in a much more immediate future?

I was left wondering recently why Elon Musk spends any time on Model 3 production issues while he appears scared to death about the threat of AI? Seems like a very poor use of his time.

Cardboard

rb

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #416 on: April 17, 2018, 04:28:07 PM »
Regarding extinction of humanity don't you think that a conflict with Russia, AI taking over, a virus or a large solar mass ejection toward Earth have a much greater chance of wiping out most humans and in a much more immediate future?

I don't.

I was left wondering recently why Elon Musk spends any time on Model 3 production issues while he appears scared to death about the threat of AI? Seems like a very poor use of his time.

Cardboard
Elon Musk does what he does because Elon Musk is full of shit. But then he has to be in order to get people and institutions to keep giving him billions of dollars.

Spekulatius

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #417 on: April 17, 2018, 04:47:12 PM »
Yep, ice breaking supertankers. What could possibly go wrong?

The cost would go wrong. They probably would cost a billion or more a piece. And you can’t decomission them at those scrap yards in India or Bangladesh either.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

RichardGibbons

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #418 on: April 17, 2018, 05:15:12 PM »
Regarding extinction of humanity don't you think that a conflict with Russia, AI taking over, a virus or a large solar mass ejection toward Earth have a much greater chance of wiping out most humans and in a much more immediate future?

I think it's fairly certain that hundreds of millions will die as a result of global warming.  I think more could die out from a conflict with Russia or a virus, but the probability of either one occurring is lower.  I think the solar mass ejection has a much lower chance of happening than anything else on the list.

I was left wondering recently why Elon Musk spends any time on Model 3 production issues while he appears scared to death about the threat of AI? Seems like a very poor use of his time.

I know you wrote this not because you care about insight but rather because you wanted to insult Musk, but I think there actually is a real answer to your question.

With the Model 3, Musk has reached the same conclusion as me (way earlier than me). The only way to resolve the tragedy of the commons for global warming is to make the oil business non-economic, and one guy with a lot of money and a lot of charisma can make a difference there. The AI issue has the same tragedy of the commons, but it isn't at all obvious how a single person can act to address that problem (aside from diversifying human life across different planets). So, he focuses on the problem he can solve.

John Hjorth

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Re: KMI - Kinder Morgan
« Reply #419 on: April 17, 2018, 06:46:39 PM »
Richard,

I actually can't come up with any kind of energy, that does not finally ends up as heat [perhaps plus some more [Read: Pollution in some way, beside heating]]: Kinetic energy, potential energy, light energy, etc.

World energy consumption is just going up and up. There was a slight dip in 2009, because of lower economic activity, caused by GFC, though.

It's a great space to invest in, because demand is just going up and up. One just has to master taxes & subsidies in the space, combined with politics. Personally, I'm just too dumb for that.
”In the race of excellence … there is no finish line.”
-HH Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates and Ruler of Dubai