Author Topic: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company  (Read 18182 times)

stockspinoffinvesting

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2018, 06:43:32 PM »
Thanks for the comments. I just confirmed with Forbes that its valuations DO NOT include the value of the arena. So it's not double counting.


Gregmal

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2019, 09:41:57 AM »
Let's hope that where there has been smoke, there will be fire. Go get us $5B Jim!

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2821340-nba-rumors-james-dolan-courting-offers-for-knicks-sale-per-bill-simmons










clutch

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2019, 09:58:29 AM »
Let's hope that where there has been smoke, there will be fire. Go get us $5B Jim!

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2821340-nba-rumors-james-dolan-courting-offers-for-knicks-sale-per-bill-simmons

Yes!! For us shareholders but also for the sake of poor Knicks fans!!

fareastwarriors

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2019, 08:57:09 AM »
Is the Knicksí James Dolan the Worst Owner in Professional Sports?

The team has the worst record in the league this century, and a culture so dysfunctional that itís now actively repelling the gameís best talent.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-07-26/is-the-knicks-james-dolan-the-worst-owner-in-professional-sports?srnd=premium

Spekulatius

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2019, 05:15:06 PM »
Do you have any thoughts on the CEO departure?  Is capital allocation done by Nolan?

I am going to have to watch this one from the sidelines for the time being but I suspect you will do well on this one.  It seems that as the US gets richer and richer the number of sports teams is relatively static.  So you have competition for a rare asset.   It might not make sense to a value investor but I think it is likely that the valuations gradually (or not so gradually) work their way up.   I mean if someone will pay $400m for a painting why not $2b for a major sports team.

From my understanding it is the Board, with the general direction nudged by Dolan. The CEO departure was a little surprising, but if there is a company where the management team really isn't all that important to me, it is this one. Its never going to be an EPS darling. Operationally they never really make a ton of money. It's solely about one of a kind assets and being given by my estimates, at least a 30-50% discount. I've been a part of this basically since the spin from Cablevision. I still own MSGN and added to it recently. Thats the cash flow monster. I almost feel as if the split of MSG and MSGN was a stupid short term move done to appease the Wall Street jerk offs. Sperately, MSGN is a machine, but boring. MSG is exciting and unique but really doesnt make much money. As one they were kind of perfect IMO because they each balanced out the weaknesses of the other.

I'd also mention, that for all the crap Dolan gets for being a whacko, the part about him being anti shareholder is a classic misconception. Take a peak at how you'd have done being invested in any of the Dolan companies or spin outs. The track record is pretty awesome. MSG is his baby.

I know my comment to your post, but as a recent shareholder (with just a small starter position), I feel that the current structure of splitting MSG and MSGN makes now sense. The split certainly hasnít created much shareholder value. MSG got a big cash dowry and the cash flow monster MSGN carries some debt, but this seems an inefficient structure. If the two were combined, there wouldnít be much debt left and whatever is needed could be dealt with a cheap mortgage and the cash flow from MSGN could be used to reinvest in the business. This probably would result in a more tax efficient structure.

Anyways I donít own enough worry much about it, but itís s Great asset and I hope Mr Market gives me and opportunity to acquire more shares some day.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

Gregmal

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2019, 06:28:55 PM »
Do you have any thoughts on the CEO departure?  Is capital allocation done by Nolan?

I am going to have to watch this one from the sidelines for the time being but I suspect you will do well on this one.  It seems that as the US gets richer and richer the number of sports teams is relatively static.  So you have competition for a rare asset.   It might not make sense to a value investor but I think it is likely that the valuations gradually (or not so gradually) work their way up.   I mean if someone will pay $400m for a painting why not $2b for a major sports team.

From my understanding it is the Board, with the general direction nudged by Dolan. The CEO departure was a little surprising, but if there is a company where the management team really isn't all that important to me, it is this one. Its never going to be an EPS darling. Operationally they never really make a ton of money. It's solely about one of a kind assets and being given by my estimates, at least a 30-50% discount. I've been a part of this basically since the spin from Cablevision. I still own MSGN and added to it recently. Thats the cash flow monster. I almost feel as if the split of MSG and MSGN was a stupid short term move done to appease the Wall Street jerk offs. Sperately, MSGN is a machine, but boring. MSG is exciting and unique but really doesnt make much money. As one they were kind of perfect IMO because they each balanced out the weaknesses of the other.

I'd also mention, that for all the crap Dolan gets for being a whacko, the part about him being anti shareholder is a classic misconception. Take a peak at how you'd have done being invested in any of the Dolan companies or spin outs. The track record is pretty awesome. MSG is his baby.

I know my comment to your post, but as a recent shareholder (with just a small starter position), I feel that the current structure of splitting MSG and MSGN makes now sense. The split certainly hasnít created much shareholder value. MSG got a big cash dowry and the cash flow monster MSGN carries some debt, but this seems an inefficient structure. If the two were combined, there wouldnít be much debt left and whatever is needed could be dealt with a cheap mortgage and the cash flow from MSGN could be used to reinvest in the business. This probably would result in a more tax efficient structure.

Anyways I donít own enough worry much about it, but itís s Great asset and I hope Mr Market gives me and opportunity to acquire more shares some day.

It makes sense short term because you force the market to assign values. It is like the upcoming split with MSG and the entertainment company(which I love btw bc the entertainment biz is a capital intensive shitshow that does have substantial upside, but an entirely different profile than what I want to be investing in here). But anyhow, right now, you've got 6.5B or so in market cap. Give the $1B cash to the less valuable company, and keep the sports teams by themself. Do the Knicks and Rangers combined with the real estate trade for under $5B? Does the entertainment and ~$1.2B cash trade for less than $1.5? If so you have clear mispricings and if not you make money from here. But longer term you loses synergies.

Gregmal

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2019, 05:22:33 AM »

Cardboard

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2019, 07:16:05 AM »
So what is the thesis for this to be valued at a lesser discount to SOTP? Conglomerates always trade at a discount so what is it?

Cardboard

Gregmal

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2019, 07:24:00 AM »
So what is the thesis for this to be valued at a lesser discount to SOTP? Conglomerates always trade at a discount so what is it?

Cardboard

Dolan is an idiot is basically the discount rationale.

Spekulatius

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Re: MSG - The Madison Square Garden Company
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2019, 08:43:02 AM »
So what is the thesis for this to be valued at a lesser discount to SOTP? Conglomerates always trade at a discount so what is it?

Cardboard

Dolan is an idiot is basically the discount rationale.

Collections of assets will trade at a discount to fair value most of the time, whether they are run by an idiot or not. FWIW, I just bought more MSG just now.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.