Author Topic: OSTK - Overstock.com  (Read 99638 times)

KinAlberta

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #370 on: January 29, 2018, 09:45:42 AM »
"OSTK stock is making promises it can't keep"

I saw this byline and thought; Oh, let's read this article. However, as usual, considerable disappointment in the quality of supposedly professional unbiased writing. In this case, disappointment with the all too common pairing up of statements out of their own context with a counterpoint tagged on, which in light of their slight-of-hand pairing, may or may not be valid.

Example: “I’m telling you we have an invention – we’re going after 75% of Goldman’s revenue,” he said on the call. Earlier, he said “I suspect [securities lending] may be 100% of the profits at Goldman Sachs.”





Anyway, everyone's thoughts on the rest of the opinion piece would be most welcome.

Quote
Overstock.com Inc Stock Is Overvalued, but Short at Your Peril
OSTK stock is making promises it can't keep

By VINCE MARTIN, InvestorPlace Contributor
Jan 29, 2018, 6:51 am EST

But there’s a larger concern here. Byrne tends to oversell his case. Multiple times on the call – and elsewhere, as a blogger has pointed out – Byrne dropped the “prime brokerage” qualifier:

“I’m telling you we have an invention – we’re going after 75% of Goldman’s revenue,” he said on the call. Earlier, he said “I suspect [securities lending] may be 100% of the profits at Goldman Sachs.”

Byrne may be misspeaking but investors are incorrectly taking him literally. Prime brokerage is only a part of Goldman’s Securities Services business, which generated just 11% of the company’s total 2016 revenue, per the 10-K.


https://investorplace.com/2018/01/ostk-stock-overvalued-short/#.Wm9bDCMZNR4



Bolding is mine


Per a quick Google search (below):

Quote

8-K
OVERSTOCK.COM, INC filed this Form 8-K on 11/14/2017

"I'm going to show you a piece of paper that cost you, the shareholders, $20 million to see. That's how much it cost for us to get this piece of paper. This comes, sometimes it's slow, I'm told. Okay. I can legally show this. This came out of that lawsuit. This is from Goldman Sachs. How much of Goldman Sachs prime brokerage actually comes from this thing called securities lending? The answer turns out to be 75% of American prime brokerage revenue. "

...

"we found the pipe that was really the pipe of 75% of the revenue of Goldman Sachs' prime brokerage in the United States."

...

"It's based in the blockchain, no SEC audits and finding Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse. Everything is 1:1, rigid, blockchain, immutable, secure, transparent to regulators. It's such a brilliant, I mean, such an invention. The idea that we have this, basically, in short, I'm telling you we have an invention; we're going after 75% of Goldman's revenue. We're going after, directly after, and the market has learned all about this, they really have. We are hearing from so many clients of prime brokers; I love this. I was just in New York, ..."





http://investors.overstock.com/mobile.view?c=131091&v=202&d=3&id=aHR0cDovL2FwaS50ZW5rd2l6YXJkLmNvbS9maWxpbmcueG1sP2lwYWdlPTExODk0MzEwJkRTRVE9MiZTRVE9MTAmU1FERVNDPVNFQ1RJT05fUEFHRSZleHA9JnN1YnNpZD01Nw%3D%3D


again, bolding is mine
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 09:54:42 AM by KinAlberta »


no_free_lunch

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #371 on: January 29, 2018, 10:06:07 AM »
So 75% of GS prime brokerage business is alledgedly related to securities lending.   How much is GS prime brokerage revenue?

KinAlberta

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #372 on: January 30, 2018, 09:00:47 AM »
I'm not sure how this might fit into the scheme of things but it's interesting.

Quote
Who owns blockchain? Goldman, BofA amass patents for coming wars
By Olga Kharif BLOOMBERG NEWS  DECEMBER 28, 2016

"In the headlong rush to revolutionize modern finance, blockchain enthusiasts are overlooking one potentially costly problem: Their applications, built on open-source code, may actually belong to someone else.

Recently, some of the biggest names in business, from Goldman Sachs to Bank of America and Mastercard, have quietly patented some of the most promising blockchain technologies for themselves. Through mid-November, the number of patents that companies have obtained or said they’ve applied for has roughly doubled since the start of the year, according to law firm Reed Smith. ..."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/12/27/who-owns-blockchain-goldman-bofa-amass-patents-for-coming-wars/wIN4xlb7yqst5BqPlZOVEJ/story.html


Schwab711

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #373 on: January 30, 2018, 09:10:18 AM »

KinAlberta

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #374 on: January 30, 2018, 11:06:49 AM »
A summary of misleading statements by OSTK:
https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/overstocks-patrick-bryne-s-promotion-of-tzero-is-false-and-misleading-406eccd8d636

Thanks for posting. Interesting. So here's the first one with footnote links included.

Any thoughts on his statements and the context of his discussion. Also posting an article about the lawsuit he's referencing. (All about something I don't want to have to follow.)

Quote

Byrne false claim #1: Overstock.com spent $30 million in litigation to learn a secret, that 75% of the revenue of Goldman Sachs and 75% of the revenue of Wall Street banks is from securities lending.

In Byrne’s tZERO presentations, he explains Wall Street’s “big secret,” namely that he claims the majority of investment banks’ revenue comes from securities lending. He typically first states that 75% of prime brokerage revenue comes from securities lending, but then consistently and repeatedly presents that statistic as 75% of Goldman Sachs’ revenue and/or “75% of the revenue of Wall Street”; for example: “Seventy-five percent of Goldman Sachs’ revenue comes from an activity that they have kept, that has been obscured from the public. It’s called securities lending.”[ii]

...
Blockchain in Business: Overstock and tZERO — Patrick Bryne. September 21, 2017 (published Nov 2, 2017) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COQvMsbb-Cw&t=11m35s [11:39, 15:59] and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTbE8DXyjG8 [1:40:53, others]

[ii] Blockchain in Business: Overstock and tZERO — Patrick Byrne. September 21, 2017 (published Nov 2, 2017) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COQvMsbb-Cw&t=4m35s [04:35]


Blockchain in Business: Overstock and TZero - Patrick Bryne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COQvMsbb-Cw&t=11m35s


Quote
#BUSINESS NEWS
AUGUST 17, 2017 / 2:46 PM / 5 MONTHS AGO
U.S. pension funds sue Goldman, JPMorgan, others over stock lending market

"(Reuters) - Three U.S. pension funds sued six of the world’s largest banks on Thursday, including Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) and JP Morgan Chase & Co (JPM.N), accusing them of conspiring to stifle competition in the more than $1 trillion stock lending market."

...

The Iowa Public Employees’ Retirement System, Orange County Employees’ Retirement System and Sonoma County Employees’ Retirement Association said in the lawsuit that the banks have cornered the market on stock lending in violation of federal antitrust law.

“Through various improper means, the likes of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley have for years colluded to maintain their power over this little-known-but-lucrative corner of Wall Street,” said Michael Eisenkraft, a lawyer for the funds and partner with Cohen Milstein.

...

The funds claimed in the lawsuit that the defendants conspired to take down upstart stock lending platforms AQS, which was developed by Quadriserv Inc, and SL-x, which would have allowed lenders and borrowers to interact directly.

The lawsuit claimed that in 2012 Goldman Sachs threatened to stop doing business with Bank of New York (BNY) Mellon if it continued to support the AQS platform and that the bank agreed to stop using it. BNY Mellon declined to comment.

The lawsuit said that through a joint project called EquiLend LLC, the banks purchased SL-x’s intellectual property and shelved it, according to the lawsuit. The funds accused ..."



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-stocklending-lawsuit/u-s-pension-funds-sue-goldman-jpmorgan-others-over-stock-lending-market-idUSKCN1AX2NK


no_free_lunch

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #375 on: February 05, 2018, 10:30:11 AM »
rkabang,

Did you ever get your tzero tokens?  Or did you at least get your window?

rkbabang

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #376 on: February 05, 2018, 03:41:56 PM »
rkabang,

Did you ever get your tzero tokens?  Or did you at least get your window?

No word on the window yet.

rkbabang

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Re: OSTK - Overstock.com
« Reply #377 on: February 13, 2018, 08:27:44 AM »
rkabang,

Did you ever get your tzero tokens?  Or did you at least get your window?

No word on the window yet.

My window is finally open and I received a 286 page white paper in PDF format to go through a few days ago. I've read about half of it so far.  I'd post it if it wasn't for the non-disclosure agreement.  It is basically the plans for a blockchain trading platform.   I'll be able to buy tokens through the ICO at $8 per.   77% of the tokens will be sold in the ICO the rest will be held by the company.  The plan is to have the tokens pay a dividend once t0 is profitable.  10% of adjusted gross revenue quarterly.  I'm still reading, much of it is technical so slow going.  I haven't made any decisions yet.