Author Topic: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.  (Read 34656 times)

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2018, 03:58:10 AM »
so the beatings shall continue.

Have you been spending a lot of time on Twitter, rb?

It hasnít been that bad. NAV and share price growth continue and buying at a 40% discount to NAV is a nice margin of safety which people, based on this thread and others, donít seem to care much about these days.
Top 5 positions: ELF IAM GCM.NT/GCM PIF EFR.DB


StubbleJumper

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2018, 06:03:49 AM »
Here's the thing that seems to be missing which may prevent the whole go private.

If they want to go private they'll have to do a tender. Why would the other shareholders tender their shares out for cheap? It makes no sense. The only way for the shareholders to do that is if they are so desperate and beaten down that they gave up any hope. My guess is if the go private doen't happen is because they don't consider that the shareholders are depressed enough so the beatings shall continue.



Well, the quick answer is that ELF could offer a 20% or 25% premium to minority holders and still buy the shares for less than book. Same deal with Economic and United -- you could offer a 20% premium and still buy them for less than book.  It would piss off some hardcore value guys, but most would be happy to grab the 20% return and run.  You don't need everyone to agree, you just need a majority. 

That's a little bit like how Prem bought out minority ORH holders for a song.  A few of us hardcore guys are pissed, but everyone else was giddy about the premium.


SJ

Spos

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2018, 07:32:51 AM »
"Well, the quick answer is that ELF could offer a 20% or 25% premium to minority holders and still buy the shares for less than book. Same deal with Economic and United -- you could offer a 20% premium and still buy them for less than book.  It would piss off some hardcore value guys, but most would be happy to grab the 20% return and run.  You don't need everyone to agree, you just need a majority."

I think this is it, having to pay the premium.  By doing this slowly through small purchases, you're not paying the premium.  And if your horizon is long and you have control, having the minorities doesn't seem like a large cost.  Some leakage in terms of public company costs and the small dividends, but the minorities also pay a part of your salary. 

And if this is the thinking they have no real incentive to close the discount.  I'd like to be wrong on this because I own a little of it, but I think a sale of Empire Life would be a more likely first transaction.

bizaro86

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #93 on: June 26, 2018, 07:35:19 PM »
Wouldn't a tender for the CEFs at a discount put them at risk of having everyone dissent? It seems likely to me that you could make a pretty good case that your shares in a CEF are in fact worth published NAV.

I only own this at the E-L level, because I think that then the discount on the CEFs works at least partially in my favour as they are slowly buying them in. If I was picking one of the CEFs it would definitely be EVT because of the large E-L holding within the fund.

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2018, 02:55:53 AM »
Meanwhile, this is the largest insider purchase I have seen them make.

https://www.canadianinsider.com/company?ticker=ELF

15k shares @ 815
Top 5 positions: ELF IAM GCM.NT/GCM PIF EFR.DB

StubbleJumper

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2018, 05:23:05 AM »
Meanwhile, this is the largest insider purchase I have seen them make.

https://www.canadianinsider.com/company?ticker=ELF

15k shares @ 815


Yeah, the Jackman family doesn't make many open market purchases.  If they have any aspirations to buy the ~1m shares that they currently do not own, it'll take a hell of a long time when they do it 1,000 at a time.

The more effective slow-moving takeover is when Economic periodically adds a few ELF shares and then when ELF periodically buys a few more Economic shares.  If they do that for long enough, it'll effectively be a buyout.


SJ

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: ELF.TO - E-L Financial Corp. Ltd.
« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2018, 06:13:11 AM »
I generally see them using ELF to buy UNC and the family holding companies buy ELF and EVT.
Top 5 positions: ELF IAM GCM.NT/GCM PIF EFR.DB