Author Topic: SSW - Seaspan  (Read 111493 times)

xtreeq

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #470 on: November 06, 2016, 12:06:50 AM »
http://theloadstar.co.uk/seaspan-sells-youngest-ever-container-vessel-for-scrap-as-idle-fleet-nears-1m-teu-mark/

Meanwhile, it appears that Seaspan, the biggest containership non-operating owner, has decided that the Panamax charter market is unlikely to improve anytime soon.
According to shipbroker reports, the NYSE-listed container vessel lessor has sold its 2003-built 4,646 teu Seaspan Excellence (previously known as the MOL Excellence) for a sum reported by vesselsvalue.com as $280 LDT [light displacement tonne, the measure used by scrap buyers], equating to a total demolition value of $5.96m.
The deal gives a useful snapshot of the container chartering market Seaspan bought the vessel from MOL in March 2013 for $17.2m, only to be forced to sell it for scrap for $11.25m less than it paid for it just three and half years later, and at least a decade before the end of its operating lifetime


ScottHall

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #471 on: November 06, 2016, 01:21:21 PM »
Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown.
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Uccmal

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #472 on: November 07, 2016, 08:08:56 AM »
All out.  This is going to get worse before it gets better, for all the reasons listed above by myself and other posters. 

The balance sheet, as I comprehend it, is too fragile to sustain the present value of the common stock in the event of a recession.  I dont think they go bankrupt, but the common stock could well break a dollar, making it a private company held by the pref. shareholders.  The window to access capital is likely closed for them now. 

As a betting man I say the dividend gets cut by alot, if not 100%. 

GARP tending toward value

finetrader

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #473 on: November 07, 2016, 09:01:24 AM »
comparing Seaspan business model to a REIT was probably an aggressive way of evaluating this company.

I did not invest in Seaspan (well I've traded it a few years ago)  but I've been following the story.
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Schwab711

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #474 on: December 23, 2016, 09:21:54 AM »
Does anyone have any docs or know a rule-of-thumb for estimating lightweight displacement tonnage from DWT? All I can find on SSW's website is DWT and the only DWT-LDT matrix I can find (vesselvalues.com) is behind a paywall.

DooDiligence

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #475 on: December 23, 2016, 11:03:21 PM »
Does anyone have any docs or know a rule-of-thumb for estimating lightweight displacement tonnage from DWT? All I can find on SSW's website is DWT and the only DWT-LDT matrix I can find (vesselvalues.com) is behind a paywall.

Those 2 measurements represent different physical objects.

Are you trying to figure based upon a specific load out?

If not then both these figures can be obtained from vessel tonnage certificates.

LDT is the weight of the vessel as it comes from the shipyard & doesn't include any consumables (fuel, lube, water, galley stores, etc.) & is listed as gross tons on a tonnage certificate.

DWT includes all cargo & consumables minus LDT & is listed as net tonnage on a cert.

Displacement & tonnage can be very confusing as you'll encounter domestic (US) & international (ITC) certs.

My vessel is registered on the International Tonnage Certificate at 2998 gross tons which means that there is 299,800 cu. ft. of enclosed space on the vessel & it displaces 2998 tons of H2O (we don't have a domestic cert because we're a SOLAS boat.)

The net tonnage for the vessel is 1164 & this means that out of the 299,800 cu. ft. of total enclosed space, 116,400 cu. ft. is actual cargo space (to confuse things more, I can load another 1,500 or so tons on deck & this doesn't get included in the net tonnage or DWT on the cert because it's not enclosed space but you can bet it gets included on my stability calcs.)

US tonnage certs indicate much lower gross tonnage because naval architects add removable "tonnage hatches" in all internal living spaces & at least one hatch leading from an internal to an external space (usually behind the main superstructure & leading to the deck) these hatches can be un-bolted & removed to create a continuous space which is open to the outdoors.

Basically they are saying that since all this space can conceivably be opened to the deck, it doesn't exist & should not be included in the gross tonnage (try going through the Panama or Suez canal or getting pulled out of the water at a dry dock using a Domestic Tonnage Certificate - not...)

They do this to allow guys with 100 ton licenses to run a vessel that is by all rights a 400 to 500 ton boat.

Give me some vessel specifics & I may be more helpful...
abc | abev | aapl | azo | bbh | brk.b | cri | cvs | dva | dis | ew | ffxdf | gpc | mo | nvo | vde

10 months left in the BRK.B 1st of the month DCA program (hoping 4 a selloff 2 go all in!)

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Schwab711

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #476 on: December 24, 2016, 06:41:21 AM »
Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to get an estimate of the mass of the vessel (LDT) to estimate scrap value. On seaspans fleet section they have DWT (mass of fully loaded vessel?) and gross tonnage (volume of vessel interior). I figured I'd need to estimate DWT to LDT conversion factor, since scrap prices are per LDT.

Am I thinking about this wrong? How much would you get if you scrapped the below at $250 per LDT?

http://www.seaspancorp.com/vessels/cosco-japan/


DooDiligence

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #477 on: December 24, 2016, 10:17:32 AM »
Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to get an estimate of the mass of the vessel (LDT) to estimate scrap value. On seaspans fleet section they have DWT (mass of fully loaded vessel?) and gross tonnage (volume of vessel interior). I figured I'd need to estimate DWT to LDT conversion factor, since scrap prices are per LDT.

Am I thinking about this wrong? How much would you get if you scrapped the below at $250 per LDT?

http://www.seaspancorp.com/vessels/cosco-japan/

If you have the gross tonnage then that is the amount of water displaced by the vessel with no cargo or consumables.

There will also be a lot more valuable metals like copper & stainless steel in this measurement.

91,050 x $250 = $22,762,750.

You should be aware that it's not unusual to see different tonnages reported on Certificate of Registry & a Certificate of Inspection & a Class Certificate.

Where did the gross tonnage on the website come from?

Is it reported correctly?

Ask the company if it came from the International Tonnage Certificate...
abc | abev | aapl | azo | bbh | brk.b | cri | cvs | dva | dis | ew | ffxdf | gpc | mo | nvo | vde

10 months left in the BRK.B 1st of the month DCA program (hoping 4 a selloff 2 go all in!)

-----

https://twitter.com/tunawish

DooDiligence

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #478 on: December 24, 2016, 09:11:31 PM »
I almost forgot.

Is salvage value based on a long ton (2240 lbs) or a short ton (2000 lbs) ?
abc | abev | aapl | azo | bbh | brk.b | cri | cvs | dva | dis | ew | ffxdf | gpc | mo | nvo | vde

10 months left in the BRK.B 1st of the month DCA program (hoping 4 a selloff 2 go all in!)

-----

https://twitter.com/tunawish

Schwab711

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Re: SSW - Seaspan
« Reply #479 on: December 26, 2016, 08:53:05 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_tonnage
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage

I think you cracked my case. The GT figure is the carrying capacity (a weight), determined by the internal volume of the vessel (including the crew's quarters). That's not exactly the same as the ship's mass. Howver, i found a PowerPoint from an industry conference that stated an average of 0.46 as the ratio of GT to LDT (for avg container) but didn't think it made sense at first if GT was volume based. I didn't realize there were multiple GT definitions. Also, I know SSW just scrapped a 4600 TEU vessel for $6.4m, which is why I think GT is too high to be the mass/displacement. The 0.46 coefficient helps me get close to the actual data point so I think I'm in good shape.

Hopefully I can get a hold of SSW on Tuesday and confirm. Good to know the industry lingo for when I do. Also, thanks for the heads up on other metals. I was assuming any non-steel mass would be trivial. I might be pm'ing you next week to confirm some stuff.

What guy decided to name all mass and volume definitions, "tonnage"?

I think long ton, but LDT is in mefric tons and they are close enough for an estimate
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 08:55:52 PM by Schwab711 »