Author Topic: SVU - SuperValu Inc.  (Read 18057 times)

Packer16

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2012, 04:07:47 AM »
This is the result of managements assessment of a more than temporary decline in value of the firm.  The firm puts together DCF and multiples analyses every quarter when an impairment is expected.  If the stock price stays below the book value by a significant amount over an extended period then an impairment charge is taken on goodwill and some of the intangibles.  These write downs only occur as a result of acquisitions and their related intangibles.

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Junto

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2012, 07:03:00 PM »
This is almost getting painful... Something like 1/3 of the shares owned are shorted. The shorts are either brilliant or getting ready to get destroyed- I don't see much middle ground.

Maestro brings some good points on the leverage front, but I am still adding as people can see in my Covestor Maven portfolio (http://bit.ly/oIIArd) also added some Jan 2014 $5 Calls at $1.95 last week.

It is a risk, but one I am comfortable with currently. I like what I am seeing thus far and the debt trades above par (http://bit.ly/HLR2Pv) showing none of the concerns on the equity front. I see a bounce by June but I guess we will see how it plays out.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 07:07:21 PM by Junto »

ragnarisapirate

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2012, 08:27:04 AM »
This is the result of managements assessment of a more than temporary decline in value of the firm.  The firm puts together DCF and multiples analyses every quarter when an impairment is expected.  If the stock price stays below the book value by a significant amount over an extended period then an impairment charge is taken on goodwill and some of the intangibles.  These write downs only occur as a result of acquisitions and their related intangibles.

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At times with this, when the price continues to fall, and I continue to buy more, I keep feeling like I am catching a falling knife! The whole impairment of goodwill Seems like a good way get out of paying taxes... That said, I don't really understand why market price of a security actually has that much to do with the goodwill you carry on the books. I guess that the reason for it is that the market doesn't view the acquisition as being one that will pay for it's goodwill?

Also, I believe that there will be a cash infusion from selling off the gas stations will be reported this next quarter (they got the money from what, 1/2 of them last quarter)? That probably means that they are getting ready to open up more sav-a-lots or have a smaller amount of debt (not a ton, but, every bit helps (especially when it is trading above par)!

enoch01

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2012, 01:00:25 PM »
This is almost getting painful... Something like 1/3 of the shares owned are shorted. The shorts are either brilliant or getting ready to get destroyed- I don't see much middle ground.

Maestro brings some good points on the leverage front, but I am still adding as people can see in my Covestor Maven portfolio (http://bit.ly/oIIArd) also added some Jan 2014 $5 Calls at $1.95 last week.

It is a risk, but one I am comfortable with currently. I like what I am seeing thus far and the debt trades above par (http://bit.ly/HLR2Pv) showing none of the concerns on the equity front. I see a bounce by June but I guess we will see how it plays out.

What is the argument for a turnaround?  Revenue continues to drop, margins remain thin, and CapEx spending is already low.  I like a panic as much as the next guy (and I am smelling one here), but I can't think of many good reasons to run into this fire.

ragnarisapirate

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2012, 01:13:25 PM »
This is almost getting painful... Something like 1/3 of the shares owned are shorted. The shorts are either brilliant or getting ready to get destroyed- I don't see much middle ground.

Maestro brings some good points on the leverage front, but I am still adding as people can see in my Covestor Maven portfolio (http://bit.ly/oIIArd) also added some Jan 2014 $5 Calls at $1.95 last week.

It is a risk, but one I am comfortable with currently. I like what I am seeing thus far and the debt trades above par (http://bit.ly/HLR2Pv) showing none of the concerns on the equity front. I see a bounce by June but I guess we will see how it plays out.

What is the argument for a turnaround?  Revenue continues to drop, margins remain thin, and CapEx spending is already low.  I like a panic as much as the next guy (and I am smelling one here), but I can't think of many good reasons to run into this fire.

A lot of the revenue drops (in my mind, anyway) are coming from the turnaround. For example, they are working to sell their own lines of foods, which should decrease SSS as they are generally less pricey than other brands, but, eventually, should increase margins. Additionally, they are closing unprofitable stores- which does decrease the top line.

I think what the bond side of things is showing, is that the risk of default is low, but, the equity sellers are betting that they will just have revenue and margin compression until the company doesn't really cash flow. The ironic thing here, is that as the debt gets paid off, their earnings will go up nicely.

enoch01

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2012, 01:26:29 PM »

I think what the bond side of things is showing, is that the risk of default is low, but, the equity sellers are betting that they will just have revenue and margin compression until the company doesn't really cash flow. The ironic thing here, is that as the debt gets paid off, their earnings will go up nicely.

Maybe.  But the bond market could also be responding to the fact that the company is accelerating the paydown.  The problem is, the company is choosing to starve the business (or at least put it on an unhealthy diet) in the process.

Any estimate of normalized earnings?

FCharlie

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2012, 02:42:46 PM »


What is the argument for a turnaround?  Revenue continues to drop, margins remain thin, and CapEx spending is already low.  I like a panic as much as the next guy (and I am smelling one here), but I can't think of many good reasons to run into this fire.

Does SVU actually need to turn around in order for the stock to do very well here?

It would seem that all the equity investor really needs at this price is for the business to stabilize. I don't think that's wishful thinking. We have increasing population, an economic recovery, food price inflation, fuel price inflation (which leads to food price inflation)...

SVU investors can do quite well here at $5.50/share

ragnarisapirate

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2012, 03:20:38 PM »


What is the argument for a turnaround?  Revenue continues to drop, margins remain thin, and CapEx spending is already low.  I like a panic as much as the next guy (and I am smelling one here), but I can't think of many good reasons to run into this fire.

Does SVU actually need to turn around in order for the stock to do very well here?

It would seem that all the equity investor really needs at this price is for the business to stabilize. I don't think that's wishful thinking. We have increasing population, an economic recovery, food price inflation, fuel price inflation (which leads to food price inflation)...

SVU investors can do quite well here at $5.50/share

I totally agree with this. In regards to normalized earnings, I have no idea what they will be. BUT, I do know that when something is trading for under 3x it's previous 3 year's average of the increase of tangible book value, that it strikes me as freakishly cheap. Granted, there are other things to consider, but, that metric is the easiest for me to say off the cuff. ;)

enoch01

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2012, 03:24:15 PM »


What is the argument for a turnaround?  Revenue continues to drop, margins remain thin, and CapEx spending is already low.  I like a panic as much as the next guy (and I am smelling one here), but I can't think of many good reasons to run into this fire.

Does SVU actually need to turn around in order for the stock to do very well here?

It would seem that all the equity investor really needs at this price is for the business to stabilize.

Right, that's the turnaround.  Will it happen, that is the question.

Quote
I don't think that's wishful thinking. We have increasing population, an economic recovery, food price inflation, fuel price inflation (which leads to food price inflation)...

These are very prosaic, macro-oriented observations, which if true, probably apply across the entire industry.  So the question remains: why will SVU be able to stabilize the business in the face of less leveraged competition that arguably operates more efficiently (I'm thinking of Wal-Mart, for example).

Quote
SVU investors can do quite well here at $5.50/share

Care to share any estimate of normalized earnings?

bmichaud

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »
I hate to pull a Burke CEO and comment ad infinitum on other investors' positions that I have no position in, but since I've had the unfortunate experience of being a long and short investor in this POS, I'm going to take a stab at how I would look at it.

This thing is in secular decline at worst, and barely treading water at best. Competition is outrageous, margins are declining, pricing power is non-existent, thus the current total debt to EBITDA ratio of 3.6 times is unsustainable. They are in a virtuous cycle of needing to reinvest back in the business but also pay down debt. So....

The way I would look at is in a pro forma scenario where they have to issue equity, then from there I would estimate normalized EPS.

Right now total debt is 6.9b and ebitda is 1.9b. I'd say a more sustainable td/ebitda ratio is say 1.5 times. to achieve that, they'd have to reduce debt by 4.05b. If they did that via an equity issuance at $5.50 per share, that's an additional 736 million shares added to current shares of 212 million. So then "new debt" is 2.85b - let's say the "new interest rate" is 6%, that means "new interest expense" is 171 million. LTM ebit is $1 billion, so "new EBT" is $829 million (1,000 - 171). Assuming a 35% tax rate, "normalized net income" is $539 million, or $.57 per share (948 million shares out).

So a "no growth" valuation would perhaps be 10 times $.57 per share, or $5.70 per share. I think someone said the real estate is another $2 billion, so that's another say $2.11 per share for an all-in fair value of $8.00 per share.

Free cash flow available right now for debt paydown is probably around $500 million, which means it would take 8 years for them to reduce the $4 billion of debt down to 1.5 times ebitda, and that assumes ebitda does not continue to decline, a highly unlikely proposition.

Obviously the above analysis can be manipulated ad nauseum, but at current levels I just don't see the margin of safety at these seemingly attractive PE multiples given there is next to zero balance sheet protection.

IMO, a stock wouldn't be this heavily shorted if there weren't serious fundamental issues. SHLD, NTRI, RSH, TLB, SVU have all eventually succumbed to the weight of their own deteriorating business models. SHLD is quite the exception given the activism at hand in the stock.

As with any "deep value" play, this very well could double from here for one reason or another. I just don't see how, from here, it passes the test of would you be comfortable owning it for five years if the stock market shut down. Between reinvestment just to maintain the business, margin erosion, and debt repayment, I don't see the return over the next five years were the market to shut down. Much better opportunities out there, IMO....

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Re: SVU - SuperValu Inc.
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2012, 03:58:06 PM »