Author Topic: TSLA - Tesla Motors  (Read 672450 times)

walt373

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2720 on: February 18, 2019, 10:09:54 AM »
It's a good question and I think this Credit Bubble Stocks blog post brings up a good point. For a supposed competitive advantage, why does Tesla outsource the battery production, instead of licensing it to other auto companies?

Quote
Lack of any disruptive technology. The test of whether you are an electric vehicle “disrupter” is: how many manufacturers are licensing your battery? If you’d actually invented a better electric battery or other EV technology (battery is the only technology that matters though), you could license them and have a 10x book business. Tesla not only did not do a battery licensing model, but they effectively did the opposite. Consider the parts of the vehicle industry that they have decided to in-source versus the ones they have decided to outsource. As we know, they decided to in-source and compete head-to-head on manufacturing. The results have shown that they are worse than their more experienced competition. They decided to in-source the automotive retail, which had not been done before and was not legal in most states. (And still is not legal in eight states). This had been a huge distraction from the manufacturing side and has resulted in abysmal customer service. But of all things to outsource, they outsourced the battery production to a joint venture with Panasonic. What should be the entire premise of an electric vehicle company is not even enough of a competitive advantage to do in house.


Dalal.Holdings

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2721 on: February 18, 2019, 12:01:49 PM »
Why doesn't Tesla stop focusing on building complete vehicles and instead focus on powering the vehicles of other companies. Why couldn't they build drive trains, motors and wheel bases to be retrofitted into any number of vehicles already on the road? They could be the Cummins, Lariat, Duramax engine of the EV segment.

"Introducing the new 2020 BMW 530i powered by Tesla"
"Introducing the new 2020 Honda Civic powered by Tesla"
"Introducing the new 2020 Chevy Malibu powered by Tesla"

It seems like it would cut down on manufacturing inefficiency, time and money spent on R&D, time spent fixing issues not related to the engines and give them a clear path forward which (I'm assuming) would have a faster turnover rate. Let the big brands market the cars. Think of all the marketing money Tesla could save. If every major auto brand offered one or two cars with a Tesla powered variant they would sell themselves at a much faster rate. If they were to do this I can easily see US consumers jumping ship on foreign brands to come back to the big US brands which are currently (in the consumers eye) unreliable, outdated, relics of the boomer era (no offense meant).

Thoughts? I'm not well versed in manufacturing or the auto industry. maybe this is way out in left field.

Reminds me of the "why doesn't Apple just sell its software to go into IBM/Clone machines just like Microsoft (instead of worrying about hardware/manufacturing/etc)" argument of 20 years ago. Then Apple went on to also create its own retail stores and vertically integrate even more so. Tesla wants to own the entire customer experience. If it's done right, you get a tremendous, long-lasting moat as Apple has shown.

The big reason reason why I predict that "Tesla killers" will likely fail isn't necessarily because of inferior product. It's the entire customer experience of owning those "me too" products. Similar reason why "iPod" and "iPhone" "killers" like the Zune never stood a chance.

Edit: To add, Tesla is a consumer brand whose "equity" now likely exceeds that of Chevy, Honda and perhaps even BMW in many consumer minds. Turning it into a Cummins is just throwing that all away. Plus, "Chevy Malibu powered by Tesla" just sounds gross.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 12:44:14 PM by Dalal.Holdings »

Castanza

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 383
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2722 on: February 18, 2019, 12:48:23 PM »
Why doesn't Tesla stop focusing on building complete vehicles and instead focus on powering the vehicles of other companies. Why couldn't they build drive trains, motors and wheel bases to be retrofitted into any number of vehicles already on the road? They could be the Cummins, Lariat, Duramax engine of the EV segment.

"Introducing the new 2020 BMW 530i powered by Tesla"
"Introducing the new 2020 Honda Civic powered by Tesla"
"Introducing the new 2020 Chevy Malibu powered by Tesla"

It seems like it would cut down on manufacturing inefficiency, time and money spent on R&D, time spent fixing issues not related to the engines and give them a clear path forward which (I'm assuming) would have a faster turnover rate. Let the big brands market the cars. Think of all the marketing money Tesla could save. If every major auto brand offered one or two cars with a Tesla powered variant they would sell themselves at a much faster rate. If they were to do this I can easily see US consumers jumping ship on foreign brands to come back to the big US brands which are currently (in the consumers eye) unreliable, outdated, relics of the boomer era (no offense meant).

Thoughts? I'm not well versed in manufacturing or the auto industry. maybe this is way out in left field.

Reminds me of the "why doesn't Apple just sell its software to go into IBM/Clone machines just like Microsoft (instead of worrying about hardware/manufacturing/etc)" argument of 20 years ago. Then Apple went on to also create its own retail stores and vertically integrate even more so. Tesla wants to own the entire customer experience. If it's done right, you get a tremendous, long-lasting moat as Apple has shown.

The big reason reason why I predict that "Tesla killers" will likely fail isn't necessarily because of inferior product. It's the entire customer experience of owning those "me too" products. Similar reason why "iPod" and "iPhone" "killers" like the Zune never stood a chance.

But couldn't consumers still get the "me too" feeling by buying a vehicle that simply has Tesla options rather than having it be a pure Tesla. And why couldn't they do both? Market a pure Tesla as a luxury car (which it is) and also market a Chevy Cruise with Tesla power as an economy version? I mean I can see how they are sort of trying to conquer this with the Model 3.  But the auto industry has a lot of brand loyalty. You think it would be easier to reach more people by doing this. If Ford and GM were ever willing to do this.

Dalal.Holdings

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2723 on: February 18, 2019, 01:01:37 PM »
But couldn't consumers still get the "me too" feeling by buying a vehicle that simply has Tesla options rather than having it be a pure Tesla. And why couldn't they do both? Market a pure Tesla as a luxury car (which it is) and also market a Chevy Cruise with Tesla power as an economy version? I mean I can see how they are sort of trying to conquer this with the Model 3.  But the auto industry has a lot of brand loyalty. You think it would be easier to reach more people by doing this. If Ford and GM were ever willing to do this.

IMO, disagree that the auto industry has a lot of "brand loyalty". Most of the car companies (Ford, GM, Hyundia, Kia, Toyota, etc etc) are commodity producers. Outside of pickup trucks, old U.S. manufacturers have near-zero brand loyalty. That's why they've lost ground to the Asian brands over decades, been in dire financial straits (low margin producers). Cars are commodity products to most people outside of luxury--and Ford/GM/FCAU don't really have competitive luxury products either--the Germans do. Tesla is on par with luxury brands, and probably the most out of any American luxury car brand (even Cadillac which is failing).

If you were Tesla, why would you dilute your luxury brand status by mixing with Chevy? I mean I guess Rolex could roll out a $20 watch with Casio and (temporarily) boost sales. I guess See's Candies could do some partnership with Russell Stover and destroy its brand in the process...(Note that this is a major problem of American luxury brands like Cadillac and Lincoln--they share parts/dealership lots/etc with the lower tier Chevy/Ford brands which destroys their standing in the consumer's mind).

Steve Jobs was very adamant that Apple software could not mix with the commoditized PC manufacturers. Macs came with cool designs that elevated the status of the brand. Shipping a cheap beige PC with Mac OS on it would only hurt Apple's standing. Instead, you got a huge moat (with huge margins) in the form of a walled garden. Compare that to an Intel or Cummins (low margin, very competitive industries, and not-as-wonderful businesses).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 01:04:57 PM by Dalal.Holdings »

alpha

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2724 on: February 20, 2019, 06:38:23 AM »

Has anyone come across any educated estimates on Drukenmillers option dates/strategy?


Liberty

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11324
  • twitter.com/libertyRPF
    • twitter.com/libertyRPF
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2726 on: February 21, 2019, 12:18:57 PM »
Tesla vs Jaguar I-Pace and Audi E-Tron efficiency and range test:

https://electrek.co/2019/02/21/tesla-efficiency-range-test-audi-e-tron-jaguar-i-pace/

At 120 KPH on the autobahn.
"Most haystacks don't even have a needle." |  I'm on Twitter  | This podcast episode is a must-listen

Cardboard

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3086
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2727 on: February 21, 2019, 12:45:25 PM »
More people leaving:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/02/20/tesla-general-counsel-departure-shows-company-struggles-to-retain-top-talent-pro-says.html

Poor customer service:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/tesla-refund-and-return-problems-detailed.html

And yes poor reliability as predicted from this 2018 madness.

All proper elements to drive repeat customers...

Built a small short position in the $320 range  ;D

Cardboard

A Dhandho Investor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2728 on: February 21, 2019, 02:42:45 PM »
I think I will never understand the price movement in Tesla: today the stock tanks on a report over model 3 build quality issues that were imo already widely known, while yesterday the stock remained flattish on far more bearish news (Butswinkas leaving)🤔

edit: good discussion on Tesla in this podcast as from minute 15 https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/bail-street/e/58872718?autoplay=true

"This will have a 30 billion market cap the day before it defaults"

« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 01:45:47 AM by A Dhandho Investor »

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1884
Re: TSLA - Tesla Motors
« Reply #2729 on: February 22, 2019, 06:04:57 AM »
I think I will never understand the price movement in Tesla: today the stock tanks on a report over model 3 build quality issues that were imo already widely known, while yesterday the stock remained flattish on far more bearish news (Butswinkas leaving)🤔

edit: good discussion on Tesla in this podcast as from minute 15 https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/bail-street/e/58872718?autoplay=true

"This will have a 30 billion market cap the day before it defaults"

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3436152-autonation-ceo-unloads-tesla


AN down 4% on disappointing EARNINGS. TSLA up 1% because it finally started selling cars... LOL. Pretty much sums it up.