Author Topic: The "Hopeless" Millenials  (Read 9263 times)

DTEJD1997

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2018, 08:53:24 AM »
"I'll say it again...the reigning in and regulation of educators should not be a "right or left" thing...it should be what it is right and what is needed by society.

Finally, one of the HUGE problems with regulation is that the problems of the educational industrial complex are not well known/understood by the population at large.  Most people think we don't spend ENOUGH on education! hahaha"

1+

More money is not the solution to all problems.
It seems that the positive aspects of sensible cost cutting and restructuring have been forgotten in many public circles.

Here in Detroit, the Detroit Public Schools (DPS) is constantly agitating for more & more money.

I did a little digging and found out a shocking fact...

DPS spends MORE per student than the Grosse Pointe School system. 

The Grosse Pointe School district is relatively wealthy, and amongst the best in the state.  Student outcomes are excellent by any measure. 

Contrast that to Detroit.  The results for students in Detroit are simply SHOCKINGLY bad.  So bad that Dan Rather did a documentary on it called "A National Disgrace".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xypiZ-hqdY

I would suggest that it is well worth the 90 minutes to watch this documentary.  As comprehensive and as well done this documentary is, it only scratches the surface.

Outcomes in Detroit are terrible by ANY measure that you would wish to make.

Of course, the typical Detroit student has more challenges in front of them as compared to the typical Grosse Pointer...but the simple fact is that more money does NOT equal better outcomes.


Cigarbutt

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2018, 11:36:38 AM »
"I would suggest that it is well worth the 90 minutes to watch this documentary.  As comprehensive and as well done this documentary is, it only scratches the surface."

I did watch the report when you suggested it the other day. Apparently one of the worse scenarios but still, quite typical of many neighborhoods, it seems.

Education is important (for all).

I don't know the answers but, when reading the link below about Chicago this morning, I wondered if the school problem is simply about the level of funds that a particular district receives versus another.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/chicago-segregation-poverty/556649/

In many big cities, there has been a noticeable "divide" that seems to be growing.
Conundrum: better schools will tend to become better and worse schools will tend to become worse.

"In the American economy today, there’s no guarantee that improved conditions benefit everyone."
Probably worth thinking about but it may take more than just goodwill.

rukawa

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2018, 08:22:59 PM »
Schools performance is mostly a function of expectations and selecting the right student body. High expectations along with students who are willing to learn leads to basically great outcomes.

Trying to force equity by keeping students who aren't interested in learning and lowering expectations to accommodate them is what leads to horrendous results.

We should have accepted that schools are the wrong environment for a certain percentage of kids. The next question should have been: what do we do with the ones that hate school. I would guess a large proportion of those kids would do extremely well if there was an easy way for them to enter the job market and gain skills while working. And a small proportion of them will not do well no matter what opportunities they are given.

Cigarbutt

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2018, 05:35:52 AM »
"Schools performance is mostly a function of expectations and selecting the right student body. High expectations along with students who are willing to learn leads to basically great outcomes.

Trying to force equity by keeping students who aren't interested in learning and lowering expectations to accommodate them is what leads to horrendous results."

Excellent points.
Would add however the following opinions:

-economic mobility helps to "renovate" and maintain the dynamism of society.
-economic mobility has been decreasing in the US.
-school is an ideal time/place to switch tracks.
-need hurdles not barriers.



rukawa

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2018, 01:42:05 PM »
"Schools performance is mostly a function of expectations and selecting the right student body. High expectations along with students who are willing to learn leads to basically great outcomes.

Trying to force equity by keeping students who aren't interested in learning and lowering expectations to accommodate them is what leads to horrendous results."

Excellent points.
Would add however the following opinions:

-economic mobility helps to "renovate" and maintain the dynamism of society.
-economic mobility has been decreasing in the US.
-school is an ideal time/place to switch tracks.
-need hurdles not barriers.

I think that we really need to start thinking about better options for kids that don't like school other than school itself. My cousin is a Senior partner in Deloitte...he makes >600k. But he was horrible at school. Always a failure. He only succeeded once he got out. His kids are like him...they hate school. School is a great way of achieving equity for most kids but there is a substantial component for whom it just doesn't work. We need a better method  of dealing with these kids. I actually think most of these kids when hugely benefit from entering the job market very early (lets say 13 years old) or being exposed to more entrepreneurial type situations.

I have a friend who quit school at 16 and started working as a VC. He is the most knowledgeable person I know. I don't think he finished high school or his undergraduate degree but he was making around 200k when he was 18 years old. School never worked for him.

If we had an alternative where kids could apprentice, or network or maybe do a coding competition and attempt to work at a startup I think you would produce far far superior results. I knew a lot of  kids that hated school but where amazing coders.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 01:50:19 PM by rukawa »

LC

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2018, 04:07:16 PM »
That's pretty anecdotal. I don't think the majority of kids who "hate school" would  be making 3x the median income if they just weren't burdened by geometry class.
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SharperDingaan

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2018, 07:25:58 AM »
In any population of people there will be a portion for whom the hypothesis (go to school) doesn't work - the left hand tail on the normal curve. In wealthy communities that may be 2%, whereas in the ghettos it may be 10%. Same isssue, just different numbers.

The solution has always been the 'trades' - except that 'trades' here includes the various 'hustles' of all types. To do well you must become good, it's achieved through dawinism, & it is the same process - on both sides of the law. Hence the phenom of very good detectives often actually knowing their counterparts 'on the other side'. 

In my time the trades were bootlegging, cigarettes, and money lending. Everybody knew each other, & the best in each trade were all on the far right hand side of the normal curve. One of us even went to Eton on a scholarship, a career in the City, & did very well for herself. As the saying goes ... 'scum floats to the top'.

Of course we only hear the successes, & the 'anecdotes' tend to rhyme.
The failures aren't mentioned.

Ultimately it means cutting the apron strings, & letting little Johnny/Suzie find their 'level'.
Darwinism may be upleasant but it works extremely well, & generates a lifetime of skills; that Johnny/Suzie will continue to use as they move through life. A man/woman has to know thier limitations.

SD

 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 05:27:33 PM by SharperDingaan »

mrholty

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Re: The "Hopeless" Millenials
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2018, 09:13:03 PM »
"Schools performance is mostly a function of expectations and selecting the right student body. High expectations along with students who are willing to learn leads to basically great outcomes.

Trying to force equity by keeping students who aren't interested in learning and lowering expectations to accommodate them is what leads to horrendous results."

Excellent points.
Would add however the following opinions:

-economic mobility helps to "renovate" and maintain the dynamism of society.
-economic mobility has been decreasing in the US.
-school is an ideal time/place to switch tracks.
-need hurdles not barriers.

This is exactly correct.  I live in a ex-urban middle class district.  We have issues with poverty and parents on drugs but for the most part its a great place to raise a family.  Opportunities exist, etc.  I recently ran for and won a spot on my local school board.  I am hated by the entire administration in 6 months and I've started to develop a reputation outside of my district in nearby towns "as that asshole who wants to cut funding".  I'm exactly the opposite.  I oppose our Advanced AP classes and want those $ and time to flow into bringing the lower up.  The city council and Mayor hate this as while our state allocates funding/student to give all kids in each district an opportunity - if the city kills AP and talented and gifted the parents who care will choose to live in other districts. 

One of the reasons we choose this district is the extremely strong emphasis on civics and real world skills (home ec and trades) that were part of the HS.  Our district for the past 20 years had a class of 15 young people who spend 4 hours each morning of their senior year to build a house.  This house since it was built without any labor would be then sold at market rates and would make the district $50k/annually which provided funding for lots of other programs.  Our new Superintedant killed it 2 years ago which is why I ran. 

In my district our teacher costs have grown 4.8% annually on average over the past 10 - primarily driven by increased pension and healthcare costs.  But the bigger problem is the huge increase in administrative costs.  We have built entire admin armys. Privately some teachers support me but we'll see what happens. 

My stance has gotten the state Republican office to call me up to talk but they realized I was not a good candidate for them as I also support a single payer healthcare and a $15 minimum wage.  I consider all of this to be related.  I enjoy Mike Rowe so the dems don't like me either.