Author Topic: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett  (Read 1793 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 12:47:28 PM »
Thats the thing that is truly incredible. This guy has delivered, or at least tried to, on everything he has promised people. And rather than be grateful, people rather just bitch and moan and whine about what their thoughts are regarding his personal character or moral compass when the predecessors, were either just as bad, or couldn't even be accurately judged because they were so fake and flip floppy. You have people who supported a border wall bitching about his border wall. You have clowns who implemented the border cages and child separation policies bitching about those. You've got people who don't pay their taxes or abuse the system whining about tax cuts...you have people who campaigned their way into office making promises making it abundantly clear that they are there to do absolutely nothing other than bring down Trump....its a total embarrassment and highlights how hatred and corruption really skews people's judgment. Can anyone name ANY good, that guys like Nadler, McConnell, Schiff or Paul Ryan have ever done for the world during their times in office? Has AOC done ANYTHING other than kill 25,000 jobs or whatever? Because I run into people, in both conservative and liberal areas who regularly make statements about "business really picked up after Trump got into office", or I dont care for the guy but he's right on issue xyz, or its about time we do something about this. But then with the liberals, after admitted progress for like the first time in their lives following politics, they follow it up with "I hate the guy and hope they impeach him" or "he better not get a second term"....


Mephistopheles

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2019, 01:50:02 PM »
I think he's done some good things - corporate tax cuts, going to be releasing Fannie and Freddie from cship, not getting us into another war.

But I think he's a divisive asshole who's emboldened disgusting racists and violence, and that's why people hate him. No, this isn't the Buffett/Munger way.

LC

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2019, 03:22:30 PM »
Not going to comment on the politics as there's already tons of threads on each topic.

On his "behavioral style" I would simply compare it to high school bullying. That's all it really is. And similarly it's only effective with those who enable it.

I'll echo the point that his behavior has been consistent.
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Gregmal

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2019, 03:59:24 PM »
LC you know that even if you and your buddies hand write in AOC, she isn't old enough to become president yet?

Parsad

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 04:10:19 PM »
Good discussion Cubsfan and Parsad. Do you think you can expand on your thoughts while keeping within the suggested framework?

Parsad, do you think his brilliance at "negative branding" of opponents is at all compatible with Buffett/Munger teachings generally or Dale Carnegie principles specifically?

Cubsfan, do you think that Trump would be better off showing respect for all Americans and considering all Americans to be his constituents, or do you think it's ok to violate Dale Carnegie principles and alienate the left and stir division?

  How often do cubsfan, Gregmal and Cardboard refer to fake news, libtards and radical left?  These monikers are easy to remember, so they work well within his base.  Cheers!

Yea, we refer to it because we are interested in the truth and saving this country. I'm not a big fan of trashing liberals - but have no problem
trashing the LEFT, because they are dangerous and dishonest. And if you don't think the mainstream is "fake news", well than I can't help you,
because it's too obvious for me to see - even from someone that believed in the media for years.

Many of his "base", including myself, was not AT ALL impressed with Trump during the campaign - not AT ALL. I didn't like him.

But now I love him - because of what he's done. He's fights the LEFT and is trying to save the country. And the LEFT absolutely hates him
because they can't intimidate him like they did with McCain, Romey and Gingrich. Trump is what is needed to save this country
against an insane LEFT.

I know you have your own views - but this is WAY MORE than marketing and branding.

He would be the anti-Dale Carnegie...doesn't want to win people over, but wants them to win him over.  Buffett gives credit to others...Trump wants others to give him credit.  One became very self-confident after being insecure, the other uses his insecurity to support his self-confidence.  Cheers!
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Parsad

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 04:32:12 PM »
Different methods for different people, I guess. One think you can say about Trump is that he is authentic. You could pretty much watch his TV Show 10 years or so and predict how his presidency would look like.

I think many are surprised at what a good President he really is. Not gutless or "do nothing" like Obama - or crooked like Hillary.
You never knew what Hillary stood for.  But what Trump has said he wanted to do in his campaign, he has been fearless in pursuing,
Washington, DC - be damned.  That's why the man was voted in - to shake up DC - and it certainly kept that promise.

DC needs a good housecleaning - and they are terrified of another Trump term.

Dale Carnegie could never break DC.

You complain about those trashing Trump, but for 8 years and then another 2 years, all we've witnessed is the trashing of Obama and both Clintons by the left.  It's hard to fathom how anyone trashes the President (Obama or Trump), or someone like the Clintons, who have also given their life to public service, in such a trite and disrespectful manner.  Whatever you may say about Obama or the Clintons, at least they respected the office...so much so that Obama and the Bushes found common ground after politics and enormous respect for one another. 

Trump from before his candidacy as a public figure disrespected the office in such a manner with his whole Birther movement...such nasty tirades at Obama or the Clintons...the campaign was one of the nastiest we've witnessed in over 100 years.  Yet the right, all they see is how bad the radical left and the fake news treat Trump. 

Trump on the other hand continued his best efforts to be viewed as a rotten President and human being, who's insecurities essentially wiped out his entire transitioning Administration in less than 2 years, his entire legal counsel staff, the heads of virtually every National Security senior position and has done little of his actual agenda...built and paid for the wall (nope), replaced Obamacare (nope), settled with new trade deals with China (nope), growing economy (yes, but the national debt and deficit continue to grow as fast as it did for his predecessors), brought back jobs (some), repatriated foreign capital (some), improved global relations (phhhfffttt!), not much else.

And the sheer amount of nepotism, internal dealings, lack of transparency, conflicts of interest, unethical behavior, boorish tirades...all continue under the ever present shadow of impeachment.  This only encourages him to continue his behavior, not change it for the better.

I agree, that Trump could have been the one to make a difference.  But instead he chose to do whatever he wanted to instead of what would actually benefit the country.  He's essentially the political Darth Vader of our times...insecurities took him down the dark path, instead of allowing him to accomplish real change.  What Cubsfan is celebrating isn't real change...it's BS that he prefers to lick off the plate that Trump serves him, because he feels other politicians were feeding him real crap for so many years.  Call it the lesser of two evils, but really what it should be called is compromising a set of values to exact change.  No one really wins from that type of thing if values go out the window!  Cheers!

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cubsfan

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 04:37:52 PM »

His whole victory was based on branding and marketing...whether tasteful, legal or ethical is questionable...but it worked! 

Also these descriptors or words he uses work well with his demographic and core group of supporters.  How often do cubsfan, Gregmal and Cardboard refer to fake news, libtards and radical left?  These monikers are easy to remember, so they work well within his base.  Cheers!

I think you might be forgetting the most important issue in this election.

Not branding or marketing by Trump - but an ACTUAL LEGITIMATE MESSAGE - "I will make America Great Again" - pounded into Middle America's head.
"You've been left behind by Washington"

Please tell me what Hillary's message was to America?  NOTHING, as she took it all for granted it was her destiny.


Gregmal

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2019, 04:48:58 PM »
Different methods for different people, I guess. One think you can say about Trump is that he is authentic. You could pretty much watch his TV Show 10 years or so and predict how his presidency would look like.

I think many are surprised at what a good President he really is. Not gutless or "do nothing" like Obama - or crooked like Hillary.
You never knew what Hillary stood for.  But what Trump has said he wanted to do in his campaign, he has been fearless in pursuing,
Washington, DC - be damned.  That's why the man was voted in - to shake up DC - and it certainly kept that promise.

DC needs a good housecleaning - and they are terrified of another Trump term.

Dale Carnegie could never break DC.

You complain about those trashing Trump, but for 8 years and then another 2 years, all we've witnessed is the trashing of Obama and both Clintons by the left.  It's hard to fathom how anyone trashes the President (Obama or Trump), or someone like the Clintons, who have also given their life to public service, in such a trite and disrespectful manner.  Whatever you may say about Obama or the Clintons, at least they respected the office...so much so that Obama and the Bushes found common ground after politics and enormous respect for one another. 


Sanjeev are you kidding me? I really can't even believe you wrote this? The left has absolutely NOT trashed Obama(probably the most celebrated president outside of Reagan that Ive ever seen) and the Clintons are still everyone's favorite figurehead of what was so great about the roaring' 90's. In either event, it isn't even remotely comparable the treatment of those two vs Trump. Even Dubya post 2nd term, which I thought was ridiculous(but maybe also well deserved) was mild mannered compared to this.

Given their life to public service????? Have you lost it??? LOL Every person in this country would drop their shit and give their leg to get 175K a year for life and golden benefit packages to "serve the public". Especially when the actual job entails very few real qualifications and entails more or less just making public appearances and sitting in "meetings" a few hours a day...please. Let alone the ones who get higher up or like the Clintons and Obamas, highest office of the land which basically just a ticket to the chocolate factory where $400K an hour speeches fall into your lap and multi million dollar book deals show up even though you have little valuable insight nor do you usually actually even write the book yourself!

Clinton respected the office????? LOL maybe as a place to get bf's and eh, he said he didn't f*** her, just stuck a cigar in her *****....Much respect indeed!

Read the Footnotes

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2019, 05:02:39 PM »

He would be the anti-Dale Carnegie...doesn't want to win people over, but wants them to win him over.  Buffett gives credit to others...Trump wants others to give him credit.  One became very self-confident after being insecure, the other uses his insecurity to support his self-confidence.  Cheers!

Parsad, I like that you have introduced a new rule from Dale Carnegie for us to discuss.

I agree with what you have said, but I need to add another practice, which I think complicates his record on this principle a bit. He does have a habit of heaping what seems like rather hollow and extremely vague praise on people. Of course, there is further evidence that it is disingenuous, because his praise can be reversed in a moments notice.

Also, though he will go on with vague generic praise for other people, his claims of what he has achieved are just total BS, non-sensical and complete disconnected from reality. It would surprise me if Trump has actually spent the vast majority of his life manufacturing the myth of Trump.

You've inspired me to list all his ideas from "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for further discussion.

Read the Footnotes

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Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2019, 05:09:16 PM »
To further facilitate discussion, here are the major sections and points from How to Win Friends and Influence People

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People#Major_sections_and_points

Fundamental Techniques in Handling People

1. Don't criticize, condemn, or complain. Human nature does not like to admit fault. When people are criticized or humiliated, they rarely respond well and will often become defensive and resent their critic. To handle people well, we must never criticize, condemn or complain because it will never result in the behavior we desire.

2. Give honest and sincere appreciation. Appreciation is one of the most powerful tools in the world. People will rarely work at their maximum potential under criticism, but honest appreciation brings out their best. Appreciation, though, is not simple flattery, it must be sincere, meaningful and with love.

3. Arouse in the other person an eager want. To get what we want from another person, we must forget our own perspective and begin to see things from the point of view of others. When we can combine our desires with their wants, they become eager to work with us and we can mutually achieve our objectives.

Six Ways to Make People Like You

1. Become genuinely interested in other people. "You can make more friends in two months by being interested in them, than in two years by making them interested in you." The only way to make quality, lasting friendships is to learn to be genuinely interested in them and their interests.

2. Smile. Happiness does not depend on outside circumstances, but rather on inward attitudes. Smiles are free to give and have an amazing ability to make others feel wonderful. Smile in everything that you do.

3. Remember that a person's name is, to that person, the sweetest and most important sound in any language. "The average person is more interested in their own name than in all the other names in the world put together." People love their names so much that they will often donate large amounts of money just to have a building named after themselves. We can make people feel extremely valued and important by remembering their name.

4. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. The easiest way to become a good conversationalist is to become a good listener. To be a good listener, we must actually care about what people have to say. Many times people don't want an entertaining conversation partner; they just want someone who will listen to them.

5. Talk in terms of the other person's interest. The royal road to a person's heart is to talk about the things he or she treasures most. If we talk to people about what they are interested in, they will feel valued and value us in return.

6. Make the other person feel important and do it sincerely. The golden rule is to treat other people how we would like to be treated. We love to feel important and so does everyone else. People will talk to us for hours if we allow them to talk about themselves. If we can make people feel important in a sincere and appreciative way, then we will win all the friends we could ever dream of.

Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking

1. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it. Whenever we argue with someone, no matter if we win or lose the argument, we still lose. The other person will either feel humiliated or strengthened and will only seek to bolster their own position. We must try to avoid arguments whenever we can.

2. Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say "You're wrong." We must never tell people flat out that they are wrong. It will only serve to offend them and insult their pride. No one likes to be humiliated; we must not be so blunt.

3. If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically. Whenever we are wrong we should admit it immediately. When we fight we never get enough, but by yielding we often get more than we expected. When we admit that we are wrong people trust us and begin to sympathize with our way of thinking.

4. Begin in a friendly way. "A drop of honey can catch more flies than a gallon of gall." If we begin our interactions with others in a friendly way, people will be more receptive. Even if we are greatly upset, we must be friendly to influence people to our way of thinking.

5. Start with questions to which the other person will answer yes. Do not begin by emphasizing the aspects in which we and the other person differ. Begin by emphasizing and continue emphasizing the things on which we agree. People must be started in the affirmative direction and they will often follow readily. Never tell someone they are wrong, but rather lead them where we would like them to go with questions that they will answer "yes" to.

6. Let the other person do a great deal of the talking. People do not like listening to us boast, they enjoy doing the talking themselves. Let them rationalize and talk about the idea, because it will taste much sweeter to them in their own mouth.

7. Let the other person feel the idea is his or hers. People inherently like ideas they come to on their own better than those that are handed to them on a platter. Ideas can best be carried out by allowing others to think they arrived at it themselves.

8. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view. Other people may often be wrong, but we cannot condemn them. We must seek to understand them. Success in dealing with people requires a sympathetic grasp of the other person's viewpoint.

9. Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires. People are hungering for sympathy. They want us to recognize all that they desire and feel. If we can sympathize with others, they will appreciate our side as well and will often come around to our way of thinking.

10. Appeal to the nobler motives. Everyone likes to be glorious in their own eyes. People believe that they do things for noble and morally upright reasons. If we can appeal to others' noble motives we can successfully convince them to follow our ideas.

11. Dramatize your ideas. In this fast-paced world, simply stating a truth isn't enough. The truth must be made vivid, interesting, and dramatic. Television has been doing it for years. Sometimes ideas are not enough and we must dramatize them.

12. Throw down a challenge. The thing that most motivates people is the game. Everyone desires to excel and prove their worth. If we want someone to do something, we must give them a challenge and they will often rise to meet it.

Be a Leader: How to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment

1. Begin with praise and honest appreciation. People will do things begrudgingly for criticism and an iron-fisted leader, but they will work wonders when they are praised and appreciated.

2. Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly. No one likes to make mistakes, especially in front of others. Scolding and blaming only serve to humiliate. If we subtly and indirectly show people mistakes, they will appreciate us and be more likely to improve.

3. Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person. When something goes wrong, taking responsibility can help win others to your side. People do not like to shoulder all the blame and taking credit for mistakes helps to remove the sting from our critiques of others.

4. Ask questions instead of giving direct orders. No one likes to take orders. If we offer suggestions, rather than orders, it will boost others' confidence and allow them to learn quickly from their mistakes.

5. Let the other person save face. Nothing diminishes the dignity of a man quite like an insult to his pride. If we don't condemn our employees in front of others and allow them to save face, they will be motivated to do better in the future and confident that they can.

6. Praise every improvement. People love to receive praise and admiration. If we truly want someone to improve at something, we must praise their every advance. "Abilities wither under criticism, they blossom under encouragement."

7. Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. If we give people a great reputation to live up to, they will desire to embody the characteristics with which we have described them. People will work with vigor and confidence if they believe they can be better.

8. Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct. If a desired outcome seems like a momentous task, people will give up and lose heart. But if a fault seems easy to correct, they will readily jump at the opportunity to improve. If we frame objectives as small and easy improvements, we will see dramatic increases in desire and success in our employees.

9. Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest. People will most often respond well when they desire to do the behavior put forth. If we want to influence people and become effective leaders, we must learn to frame our desires in terms of others' desires.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 05:26:25 PM by Read the Footnotes »