Author Topic: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett  (Read 1795 times)

Cardboard

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3247
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2019, 09:52:25 AM »
The Dale Carnegie and politically correct stuff is all bs. It is psychological manipulation that Buffett has used to his advantage to get rich, beat others, keep them work for less. Also to create a fake aura as to how much of a saint he is since he is so concerned about his legacy.

I have worked many years in a large corporation that was trying to apply these principles. All you get is this so called "constructive" feedback and praise for doing an ok job that it becomes highly frustrating for high performing and even average individuals. It is hypocrisy on steroids.

I much prefer the straight in your face Jack Welch approach or now Ray Dalio. If you want high performance, truth, that is the way to go. And yes, get rid of the bottom 10% who will never improve, will never be motivated, will waste your good wine or the other 90% no matter how much training and Dale Carnergie stuff you may employ,

Of course, this is not something that millenials, spoiled kids, union and government workers like to hear because they have never been criticized and challenged.

Cardboard


Read the Footnotes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2019, 12:35:25 PM »
I took the liberty of trying to sort Trump's performance in to three different baskets ranking the effectiveness of his system as analyzed through the Dale Carnegie framework. I hope this will speed the analysis along so that there is more time to devote other frameworks for analysis. I previously suggested Ben Franklin, Adam Smith, and Buffett's/Munger's own words.

Please feel free to chime in if you feel any individual recommendation has been placed in the wrong bucket.


The biggest best most winning thing you've ever seen. It's going to be amazing. You're not going to believe how great its going to be it's beautiful. Everybody says so. Winning so much we are tired of the winning.

3. Arouse in the other person an eager want. I think he likely uses this as a trick to manipulate people. Ultimately I suspect many will be disappointed as Trump will be the one who gets what he wants.

5. Talk in terms of the other person's interest. I think he probably does well with his own employees at times and obviously was able to connect with supporters who have absolutely nothing in common with him.

10. Appeal to the nobler motives. Trump also appeals to the most base, vile motives people have, but many of his ardent followers believe they have noble motives.

11. Dramatize your ideas. In this fast-paced world, simply stating a truth isn't enough. The truth must be made vivid, interesting, and dramatic. Television has been doing it for years. Sometimes ideas are not enough and we must dramatize them. As an alum of WWE and reality television, I think Trump has proven he can be dramatic.

12. Throw down a challenge.

6. Praise every improvement.


It's average at best. It's going to be the most average average you have ever seen. It's not the best. Everybody says so.

4. Begin in a friendly way. Trump does this a good bit of the time, but gets marked down for all the times he doesn't.

5. Start with questions to which the other person will answer yes.

7. Give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. I think it's a mixed bag here. Probably does a good job at times and an ok job at others.


It's the worst. You're not going to believe how bad it is. It's really a shame. Everybody says so. Really terrible. Somebody should really do something about it.

1. Don't criticize, condemn, or complain.

2. Give honest and sincere appreciation.

1. Become genuinely interested in other people. "

2. Smile.

3. Remember that a person's name is, to that person, the sweetest and most important sound in any language.

4. Be a good listener.

6. Make the other person feel important – and do it sincerely. It seems like most posters including supporters agree he lacks the sincerity part.

1. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.

2. Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say "You're wrong."

3. If you're wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.

6. Let the other person do a great deal of the talking. People do not like listening to us boast, they enjoy doing the talking themselves.

7. Let the other person feel the idea is his or hers.

8. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.

9. Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.

1. Begin with praise and honest appreciation. People will do things begrudgingly for criticism and an iron-fisted leader, but they will work wonders when they are praised and appreciated.

2. Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly.

3. Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person.

4. Ask questions instead of giving direct orders. No one likes to take orders.

5. Let the other person save face. Nothing diminishes the dignity of a man quite like an insult to his pride.

8. Use encouragement. Make the fault seem easy to correct. If a desired outcome seems like a momentous task, people will give up and lose heart.

9. Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest.

Read the Footnotes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2019, 12:40:52 PM »
Though Franklin wrote extensively, his thirteen virtues form a pretty succinct encapsulation of his recommendations.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Virtues/thirteen_virtues

Benjamin Franklin's Thirteen Virtues

Benjamin Franklin sought to cultivate his character by a plan of 13 virtues, which he developed at age 20 (in 1726) and continued to practice in some form for the rest of his life. His autobiography lists his 13 virtues as:

"Temperance. Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation."

"Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation."

"Order. Let all your things have their places; let each part of your business have its time."

"Resolution. Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve."

"Frugality. Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; i.e., waste nothing."

"Industry. Lose no time; be always employ'd in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions."

"Sincerity. Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly."

"Justice. Wrong none by doing injuries, or omitting the benefits that are your duty."

"Moderation. Avoid extremes; forbear resenting injuries so much as you think they deserve."

"Cleanliness. Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, cloaths, or habitation."

"Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable."

"Chastity. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another's peace or reputation."

"Humility. Imitate Jesus and Socrates."

Franklin did not try to work on them all at once. Instead, he would work on one and only one each week "leaving all others to their ordinary chance".

While Franklin did not live completely by his virtues and by his own admission, he fell short of them many times, he believed the attempt made him a better man contributing greatly to his success and happiness, which is why in his autobiography, he devoted more pages to this plan than to any other single point; in his autobiography Franklin wrote, "I hope, therefore, that some of my descendants may follow the example and reap the benefit."

Read the Footnotes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2019, 02:28:43 PM »
I have inserted comments below.

Though Franklin wrote extensively, his thirteen virtues form a pretty succinct encapsulation of his recommendations.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Virtues/thirteen_virtues

Benjamin Franklin's Thirteen Virtues

"Temperance. Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation."

Well trump doesn't drink, that's good. Not sure about the eating thing. My guess is that he's is a risk of stress eating at the moment. Trump tends to project a lot and accuse innocent people of the things he's guilty of. The fact that he has been saying people should be executed for treason makes me think Trump is worried he's going to be executed for treason. That would probably lead me to overeat.

"Silence. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation."

No one has ever accused Trump of being succinct.

"Order. Let all your things have their places; let each part of your business have its time."

I don't know enough to comment, but he certainly has been able to keep his mistresses separate from his wives most of the time, so I suspect he is organized in some ways.

"Resolution. Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve."

I suspect trump does well at performing in the way that he performs.

"Frugality. Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; i.e., waste nothing."

I think he massively biggly fails on this one.

"Industry. Lose no time; be always employ'd in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions."

He does play a lot of golf, but I suspect he is industrious in his own way.

"Sincerity. Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly."

Even his supporters admit he is insincere. He is deceitful and seeks to be hurtful with his deceit on a continual basis, so failing so much here you can't believe how much he's losing.

"Justice. Wrong none by doing injuries, or omitting the benefits that are your duty."

Absolutely not since of justice. Delights in injuring others.

"Moderation. Avoid extremes; forbear resenting injuries so much as you think they deserve."

I think he talks about his resentments quite a bit, so all those grudges don't fit well with Franklin's method.

"Cleanliness. Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, cloaths, or habitation."

I believe he a germaphobe, so I suspect he would do well in this respect.

"Tranquility. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable."

Probably a mixed bag here. I think he probably lets a lot of small stuff go, but can also obsess over small things that he perceives as slights that are not.

"Chastity. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another's peace or reputation."

Probably not doing so well with the Chastity part.

"Humility. Imitate Jesus and Socrates."

Do I even need to say anything about this one? It's hard to simultaneously be humble and be the biggest bestest ever.


The ones that I think you really would look for in a leader or as a role model, are the ones his model scores/example the worst on.

If this is one of the models that Munger and Buffett would encourage us to follow, I think it's pretty incompatible with the model that Trump is promoting.

Spekulatius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3248
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2019, 03:24:21 PM »
RTF, believe you lost your audience here. Gregmal is off teaching us about “Bernie’s and Botox Betty”, “Shoes on the other foot”, “How stupid you are”, Hunter Biden’s wealth, and “real agendas”.

Interesting topics no doubt, but I prefer to read a book, or study enjoy the same topics essentially served with some vivid imagery in Fox News.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

JSArbitrage

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 235
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2019, 04:04:59 PM »
Gregmal has this right - this is a whole lot simpler than you are making this out to be: it's more about the process and the system to get results
that matter to Trump. You hate his style, we get that - he's not Dale Carnegie, Buffett, etc...  Why should he be?

He's trying to get a dictator in N. Korea under control, a group of insane mullahs in Iran contained, a Left that is bound and determine to wreck this
country. If he changes these things - he will be a great US President.

These people do not respect the teachings of Dale Carnegie - good luck with that - Kim or the Mullahs would have them shot. They use your
magnanimous behavior against you and view it as a sign of weakness. They respect and are only controlled by strength. They used Obama's
outreach to the muslim world, turned it around on him - and made him look like a weak and naive fool. So much for Dale Carnegie and an
undeserved Nobel prize that went to his head.

Trump is not and never will be a weak leader: Churchill defeated Hitler, Chamberlin did not - A Chamberlin only made the problem much worse by not containing a Hitler -  much like Obama with Iran & Russia. There will always be bad actors in the world who will spit in Dale Carnegie's face.
You can count on that.

You feel safe under Carnegie's Obama - I've never felt safer under Trump style.

Haha.  What? This isn't some personality Trump invented to fight Iran.  The guy has been this way since high-school.  Every biographer of Trump says the same thing: snowflake, trust-fund brat.  He isn't some unknowable enigma.  He's been written about for like 40 years ever since he inherited his dad's empire.

Read the Footnotes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
Re: Analyze Donald Trump's actions Through the Teachings of Munger and Buffett
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2019, 10:03:10 AM »
Providing a link to a related thread on Trump and Mercantilism vs Buffett and his endorsement of Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Adam Smith was likely the most important and successful anti-mercantilist.

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/politics/trump's-mercantilism-vs-buffett-and-adam-smith's-the-wealth-of-nations/