Author Topic: Another Case of Racial Profiling  (Read 4667 times)

Gregmal

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Parsad

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 01:57:22 PM »
Really Greg!  You're smarter than this. 

No one said only minorities are pulled over by police or held at gunpoint, but that the number of stops on a per capita basis is inordinately high for minorities than it is for Caucasians. 

Stop wasting posts!  Cheers! 
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Tim Eriksen

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 02:49:02 PM »
How do you know it is inordinately high, versus logical based on crime rates?   Seems not only presumptuous to assume race but slanderous to those in uniform.   

LC

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 03:29:15 PM »
How do you know it is inordinately high, versus logical based on crime rates?   Seems not only presumptuous to assume race but slanderous to those in uniform.

Good question. My guess? Because the year is 2019 and he is capable of performing a simple google search. ;D

https://www.google.com/search?q=police%20stops%20per%20race
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Parsad

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 12:53:33 AM »
How do you know it is inordinately high, versus logical based on crime rates?   Seems not only presumptuous to assume race but slanderous to those in uniform.

Maybe the sample size is too small for both studies:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/21/us/police-stops-race-stanford-study-trnd/index.html

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

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ERICOPOLY

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 08:39:23 AM »
I wonder whether police strategies make it an unavoidable statistic.  For example, if an alien policeman came down from space and wanted to conduct searches of vehicles most likely to be involved in a crime, the alien may consciously decide to conduct those searches in high-crime areas under the notion that cars in high-crime areas are more likely to be involved in a crime (statistically speaking).  It looks like a reasonable approach with an anti-crime bias.

In order to conduct those searches, the alien would need to come up with an excuse to make a traffic stop.  However the demographics of those neighborhoods would disproportionally target blacks.  So does the anti-crime bias look to others like an anti-black bias?


Cigarbutt

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 08:16:41 PM »
^Criminal profiling is the name of the game and increasing resources, vigilance and even spontaneous interventions could make sense in high-crime areas. Disturbing findings though are described when higher traffic arrest for violations (proportional) remain higher in low-crime areas, suggesting more than a simple anti-crime bias. While it has been reported that a high proportion of those apprehended for a minor offense and contesting using the racial profile discourse were found to be effectively involved in more serious crimes (up to 50%), I'm not sure this meets the fairness criteria that would be set forth in an ideal judiciary system.

The previous post reminded me of the story of Sacco and Vanzetti. In the 1920s, they were arrested, tried and sent to the electric chair. This case is still unresolved in a way but may be relevant food for thought for those interested in how racial or other similar-minded profiling may permeate the process. It appears that many people felt it was OK to arrest and to condemn them even if the evidence was often contradictory, if there was possible inappropriate interference with the judiciary process and if the evidence did not reach the burden of proof for a criminal case because it was felt by many that it was statistically likely that they had committed the crime for which they were arrested. Also, it was felt by many that, even if they were not guilty for that specific crime, they were likely guilty of other crimes and so deserved the death sentence. It seems at least that Justice, while guided by the anti-crime bias, was not fair and dispassionate even if the end conclusion may have been right. Slippery slope. I've never been arrested but I would bet it's more than a simple inconvenience.

There are many books and articles about Sacco and Vanzetti and here's a short summary if anybody is interested:
https://www.thoughtco.com/sacco-vanzetti-4148194
Also Mr. Bill Bryson does an excellent and succint job in a chapter of One Summer: America 1927
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 08:24:07 PM by Cigarbutt »

Tim Eriksen

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 08:10:37 PM »
How do you know it is inordinately high, versus logical based on crime rates?   Seems not only presumptuous to assume race but slanderous to those in uniform.

Good question. My guess? Because the year is 2019 and he is capable of performing a simple google search. ;D

https://www.google.com/search?q=police%20stops%20per%20race

I think you missed my point.  Minorities being pulled over more than whites versus the relative population percentage is not necessarily evidence of racism.  It is an oversimplification.  The proper comparison is not ethnic percentage of drivers, it is the relative ethnicity of traffic violators including fix it violations.  Also need to know if the officer even determined the race of the driver before the stop.
For example, minorities get arrested for jaywalking more than whites.  Is it racism or due to other factors?  While racism may explain a small portion, it is largely due to other factors.  We do not do society a favor by claiming racism when it is not necessarily racism.  It is harmful and shameful, and when we are wrong it is slanderous.  Obviously there is still racism and it should be called out for what it is.   While we have further to go, we have actually been making significant progress in the last few generations.       

LC

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 09:08:26 PM »
How do you know it is inordinately high, versus logical based on crime rates?   Seems not only presumptuous to assume race but slanderous to those in uniform.

Good question. My guess? Because the year is 2019 and he is capable of performing a simple google search. ;D

https://www.google.com/search?q=police%20stops%20per%20race

I think you missed my point.  Minorities being pulled over more than whites versus the relative population percentage is not necessarily evidence of racism.  It is an oversimplification.  The proper comparison is not ethnic percentage of drivers, it is the relative ethnicity of traffic violators including fix it violations.  Also need to know if the officer even determined the race of the driver before the stop.
For example, minorities get arrested for jaywalking more than whites.  Is it racism or due to other factors?  While racism may explain a small portion, it is largely due to other factors.  We do not do society a favor by claiming racism when it is not necessarily racism.  It is harmful and shameful, and when we are wrong it is slanderous.  Obviously there is still racism and it should be called out for what it is.   While we have further to go, we have actually been making significant progress in the last few generations.     

This is a fair point however legitimate studies will specifically adjust for geographic crime rates and other factors. For example:

Quote
A "veil of darkness" test was done to analyze whether black drivers are being pulled over at a higher rate during the day than at night, when officers would have a harder time distinguishing race from a distance. After adjusting for the variation in sunset times across the year, researchers found a 5 to 10 percent drop in the share of stopped drivers after sunset who are black, suggesting black drivers are being racially profiled during the day.
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wachtwoord

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Re: Another Case of Racial Profiling
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 03:29:19 AM »
Really Greg!  You're smarter than this. 

No one said only minorities are pulled over by police or held at gunpoint, but that the number of stops on a per capita basis is inordinately high for minorities than it is for Caucasians. 

Stop wasting posts!  Cheers!

I'm not sure whether the data is there for the US, but, would you have a problem with a higher number of stops on a per capita basis if it can be statistically shown that people of certain backgrounds are more likely to be offenders?

Personally, I'm fine with racial profiling as long as it's not based on prejudice discrimination. Cops profile all the time based on their experience and intuition and check those that are most likely to be offending (e.g. old lady or agressive looking male). They can't check everyone! (short of becoming a police state)

What I see here is most of the times someone complains in the media to be only checked because of racial profiling, they were in fact caught with something illegal, making the police officer correct in his decision to pull that person over! (this last example is anecdotal evidence by nature though)
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