Author Topic: Art of the Deal  (Read 17205 times)

rkbabang

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4124
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 11:34:52 AM »
In my opinion anyone who can be described as a non-essential government worker in any context, should be laid off permanently.   There are far too many federal government employees doing far too many things and being paid far too much money.  I hope the shutdown lasts a long long time.  Long enough for a good percentage of these people to go find productive work in the private sector.   Trump, Obama, whoever. I don't care who shuts down the government or why, it is always a good thing.



watsa_is_a_randian_hero

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 798
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 12:40:26 PM »
What is the present value of the change in trade deficit with Mexico under USMCA vs NAFTA?  This was a $63 billion deficit in 2017...if this was reduced by 1%, a 20x multiple on this would be $12.6 billion. 

What is the savings of not providing benefits to non-us citizen Mexican nationals who cross our border illegally?

MarkS

  • Guest
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2019, 01:26:55 PM »
What is the present value of the change in trade deficit with Mexico under USMCA vs NAFTA?  This was a $63 billion deficit in 2017...if this was reduced by 1%, a 20x multiple on this would be $12.6 billion. 

What is the savings of not providing benefits to non-us citizen Mexican nationals who cross our border illegally?


I've seen reports that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer somewhere between 50 to 130 billion per year depending on numerous assumption, one of which is simply the number of illegal immigrants in the country.

Parsad

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8376
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2019, 02:23:57 PM »
What is the present value of the change in trade deficit with Mexico under USMCA vs NAFTA?  This was a $63 billion deficit in 2017...if this was reduced by 1%, a 20x multiple on this would be $12.6 billion. 

What is the savings of not providing benefits to non-us citizen Mexican nationals who cross our border illegally?


I've seen reports that illegal immigrants cost the taxpayer somewhere between 50 to 130 billion per year depending on numerous assumption, one of which is simply the number of illegal immigrants in the country.

I would think that number is probably accurate...say 10M illegals...no taxes, fraud, etc...say $10K a head and you are looking at $100B.  I agree that illegal immigrants is a problem and has to be fixed. 

I'm just against tearing families apart and saying that a $5B wall is going to fix the problem.  It took a couple of decades to create the problem, you should expect it to take nearly a decade to fix it properly...and that means more than $5B, and a wall isn't going to cure it or reduce it substantially, since you've already got more than half of the border walled or cut-off with natural terrain.  You need more people, more cameras, more security from the Mexico side...Cheers! 
No man is a failure who has friends!

MarkS

  • Guest
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2019, 02:52:12 PM »
Parsad,

I think that a wall will help.  We have a huge backlog of asylum case that we can't manage effectively.  But only about 7 to 10% of those claiming asylum will actually.   I understand why you don't want to separate families.  But how do you deal with the 90% who ultimately won't qualify for asylum.  Because of the backlog and legal protections afforded asylum claiments,  it might take years to process them at this point.  Drones and more agents do not solve this problem because once they cross the border and utter the magic word "asylum" legal ramifications stemming from the claim must be dealt with.   

For color on the backlog -  https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-take-action-address-asylum-backlog
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 02:56:21 PM by MarkS »

Parsad

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8376
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2019, 03:01:43 PM »
Parsad,

I think that a wall will help.  We have a huge backlog of asylum case that we can't manage effectively.  But only about 7 to 10% of those claiming asylum will actually.   I understand why you don't want to separate families.  But how do you deal with the 90% who ultimately won't qualify for asylum.  Because of the backlog and legal protections afforded asylum claiments,  it might take years to process them at this point.  Drones and more agents do not solve this problem because once they cross the border and utter the magic word "asylum" legal ramifications stemming from the claim must be dealt with.   

For color on the backlog -  https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-take-action-address-asylum-backlog

I understand the complication and ramifications, but if it took something years and years to fester, it isn't going to heal in a year or two.  Trump is right on illegals, but he's handling it all the wrong way...and he's not making any progress with the stance and attitude he's taking.  This wasn't a liberal/democrat problem...it's an American problem that occurred over various administrations and parties.  The problem is that the man only knows how to wield a hammer and everything is a God-damn nail to him.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

MarkS

  • Guest
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2019, 03:13:03 PM »
All fair points, Parsad.

However, I will say one thing in Trumps favor.  As you correctly point out this is a problem built on the failures of democrats and republicans over the decades.  At least Trump is raising hell trying to do something.  Left to the establishment (both sides) i can assure you that this problem would be kicked down the road just like every over difficult issue the country faces.

Parsad

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8376
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2019, 03:32:57 PM »
All fair points, Parsad.

However, I will say one thing in Trumps favor.  As you correctly point out this is a problem built on the failures of democrats and republicans over the decades.  At least Trump is raising hell trying to do something.  Left to the establishment (both sides) i can assure you that this problem would be kicked down the road just like every over difficult issue the country faces.

That's probably correct.  Again, I'm not disagreeing with Trump...only the way he's going about it and the amount of time and money this is going to take to fix properly...and not with a hammer. 

These are people we are dealing with...we lose our humanity, and we lose everything that makes America great!  Yeah take a hard line with Mexico and South American countries, as well as the criminals and murderers...but there are also many families and innocent people in that 10M population of illegal immigrants...all they want is a better life, and maybe they just took the wrong advice and did it the wrong way.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

Gregmal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1457
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2019, 03:53:14 PM »
But when Obama and other Dems including Schumer wanted a wall, no one whined....


Let me guess, two wrongs don't make a right? Obama isn't president right now? Or did I miss one...

orthopa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 586
Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2019, 04:36:13 PM »
I haven't even noticed that the fed govt was shut down? Stop reading the news on this and you will realize quickly it means nothing. Govt shuts down every couple of years. Who cares. Every time the reason is stupid depending on which party you support.

I think the one thing with Trump that is true he was exactly what he ran for or as. This should'nt be a surprise I guess knowing this was what he promised. I think it true political fashion many are surprised as he is actually pushing the issue.