Author Topic: Art of the Deal  (Read 17201 times)

LC

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2019, 04:56:28 PM »
But when Obama and other Dems including Schumer wanted a wall, no one whined....


Let me guess, two wrongs don't make a right? Obama isn't president right now? Or did I miss one...
Are you talking about the Fence Act?

That was a somewhat intelligent take on the Mexico border, but even that was seen to have failed.

Quote
A report in May 2008 by the Congressional Research Service found "strong indication" that illegal border-crossers had simply found new routes.[13] A 2017 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, citing U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) data, found that from fiscal year 2010 through fiscal year 2015, the U.S.-Mexico border fence had been breached 9,287 times, at an average cost of $784 per breach to repair.[14] The same GAO report concluded that "CBP cannot measure the contribution of fencing to border security operations along the southwest border because it has not developed metrics for this assessment."[12] GAO noted that because the government lacked such data, it was unable to assess the effectiveness of border fencing, and therefore could not "identify the cost effectiveness of border fencing compared to other assets the agency deploys, including Border Patrol agents and various surveillance technologies."[15]

The fence is routinely climbed or otherwise circumvented.[9] The GAO reported in 2017 that both pedestrian and vehicle barriers have been defeated by various methods, including using ramps to drive vehicles "up and over" vehicle fencing in the sector; scaling, jumping over, or breaching pedestrian fencing; burrowing or tunneling underground; and even using small aircraft.[16] New York Times op-ed writer Lawrence Downes wrote in 2013: "A climber with a rope can hop it in less than half a minute. ... Smugglers with jackhammers tunnel under it. They throw drugs and rocks over it. The fence is breached not just by sunlight and shadows, but also the hooded gaze of drug-cartel lookouts, and by bullets. Border agents describe their job as an unending battle of wits, a cat-mouse game with the constant threat of violence."[9][17]

Fighting and against a rising tide is unwise. Turn the ship around and make the current work for you.

In other words: allow full economic "citizenship" - i.e. you apply for some work permit. You pay taxes, you pay into social security and medicare. But you don't receive those benefits, you cannot vote, yo do not get a US passport. But you have a legal status. The increased taxes are the cost of doing business for the marginal immigrant. Those fleeing drug-torn Central America would not turn it down. It brings down the tax burden of US citizens, it separates the illicit immigration (drugs, weapons, human trafficking) from work migrants (which allows even higher penalties on illegal border crossing and therefore a stronger deterrent to the "bad hombres"), it solves the shadowy living situation of millions of US illegal immigrants, and it doesn't really change much of anything in terms of overall population flow (considering our current heavy-handed efforts do not seem to be working). It saves billions on futile immigration courts and border security, it allows border patrol to focus on criminal activity.

But nah we're gonna build a wall. That'll fix it.  :o :o

« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 05:11:09 PM by LC »
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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Parsad

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2019, 05:36:44 PM »
But when Obama and other Dems including Schumer wanted a wall, no one whined....


Let me guess, two wrongs don't make a right? Obama isn't president right now? Or did I miss one...
Are you talking about the Fence Act?

That was a somewhat intelligent take on the Mexico border, but even that was seen to have failed.

Quote
A report in May 2008 by the Congressional Research Service found "strong indication" that illegal border-crossers had simply found new routes.[13] A 2017 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, citing U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) data, found that from fiscal year 2010 through fiscal year 2015, the U.S.-Mexico border fence had been breached 9,287 times, at an average cost of $784 per breach to repair.[14] The same GAO report concluded that "CBP cannot measure the contribution of fencing to border security operations along the southwest border because it has not developed metrics for this assessment."[12] GAO noted that because the government lacked such data, it was unable to assess the effectiveness of border fencing, and therefore could not "identify the cost effectiveness of border fencing compared to other assets the agency deploys, including Border Patrol agents and various surveillance technologies."[15]

The fence is routinely climbed or otherwise circumvented.[9] The GAO reported in 2017 that both pedestrian and vehicle barriers have been defeated by various methods, including using ramps to drive vehicles "up and over" vehicle fencing in the sector; scaling, jumping over, or breaching pedestrian fencing; burrowing or tunneling underground; and even using small aircraft.[16] New York Times op-ed writer Lawrence Downes wrote in 2013: "A climber with a rope can hop it in less than half a minute. ... Smugglers with jackhammers tunnel under it. They throw drugs and rocks over it. The fence is breached not just by sunlight and shadows, but also the hooded gaze of drug-cartel lookouts, and by bullets. Border agents describe their job as an unending battle of wits, a cat-mouse game with the constant threat of violence."[9][17]

Fighting and against a rising tide is unwise. Turn the ship around and make the current work for you.

In other words: allow full economic "citizenship" - i.e. you apply for some work permit. You pay taxes, you pay into social security and medicare. But you don't receive those benefits, you cannot vote, yo do not get a US passport. But you have a legal status. The increased taxes are the cost of doing business for the marginal immigrant. Those fleeing drug-torn Central America would not turn it down. It brings down the tax burden of US citizens, it separates the illicit immigration (drugs, weapons, human trafficking) from work migrants (which allows even higher penalties on illegal border crossing and therefore a stronger deterrent to the "bad hombres"), it solves the shadowy living situation of millions of US illegal immigrants, and it doesn't really change much of anything in terms of overall population flow (considering our current heavy-handed efforts do not seem to be working). It saves billions on futile immigration courts and border security, it allows border patrol to focus on criminal activity.

But nah we're gonna build a wall. That'll fix it.  :o :o

+1!  That's a workable alternative to what is being attempted.  Would cost less, do more, and you negate the economic harm.  Republicans would still keep screaming about the criminals being let into the country.  So I think you have to do both...secure the border, remove the criminals and nationalize the illegals that should stay and pay their fair share...and maybe the price should be no passport, benefits, etc...just residency.  Cheers!
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Parsad

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2019, 05:37:29 PM »
But when Obama and other Dems including Schumer wanted a wall, no one whined....


I'm sure you did!  Cheers!

No man is a failure who has friends!

watsa_is_a_randian_hero

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 09:27:54 PM »
See attached

rb

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 09:39:23 PM »
So what? So does Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Pakistan, Laos, Myanmar, Japan and Russia.

watsa_is_a_randian_hero

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2019, 06:25:01 AM »
Well, the US has not (ever) before.

LC

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »
Officials at a government-affiliated think tank in Beijing said the price of U.S. rice was not competitive, compared with imports from South Asia, and said the move to formally permit imports from the United States should be interpreted as a goodwill gesture.


To be fair it's progress of a kind - and lest I be accused of glossing over Trump's victories.

That said,



Maybe we need a political humor thread, to lighten the tensions in here  ;D
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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ERICOPOLY

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2019, 12:05:29 PM »
The wall will be at least 6 ft deep to discourage people from tunneling under it.

Yep... nobody can dig that deep.

Gregmal

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2019, 12:11:04 PM »
LOL you guys are such clowns. Go see how long it takes to dig 6 feet down, wide enough for one, let alone multiple people, and then tunnel out the other side...

MarkS

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Re: Art of the Deal
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2019, 12:18:03 PM »
The wall will be at least 6 ft deep to discourage people from tunneling under it.

Yep... nobody can dig that deep.

Okay. But please explain to me how drones and censors will stop caravans of people from entering the country illegally.