Author Topic: Canada fights Saudi  (Read 2166 times)

shalab

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Spekulatius

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 10:24:48 AM »
Feels right and luckily, Canada doesnít need to go to war for oil.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

no_free_lunch

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 05:43:38 PM »
I dont get what we r doing there. If we start calling people out on human rights then who will be left as allies.

That being said, have to give credit to libs for sticking to their guns.

Cigarbutt

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 06:15:16 PM »
Collateral damage (or how a win-win can become a lose-lose):
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/saudi-students-given-four-weeks-to-leave-canada-even-if-studies-not-completed/wcm/0c1b95c7-b729-43af-8ca1-33c40b4d1396

Memories (late 80's and early 90's) of stimulating discussions that occurred with fellow Saudi students come to mind.

rb

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 07:53:18 PM »
I dont get what we r doing there. If we start calling people out on human rights then who will be left as allies.

That being said, have to give credit to libs for sticking to their guns.
First of all Saudi Arabia is not an ally of Canada.

Also, when exactly did human rights become a "liberal thing"? As I recall conservatives used to be pretty big on those things. Has that changed? Countries, including Canada, that respect human rights have a long history of calling out countries that don't. This is not a new thing. Furthermore there is a Canadian connection, the wife of the guy in prison is a Canadian citizen. I think that the girl is an American citizen but I'm not sure.

Finally, the moment accounts linked to the government of Saudi Arabia (of all governments) starts posting pictures of airliners flying at skylines, they can officially go fuck themselves in my book.

no_free_lunch

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 09:37:29 PM »
RB,

No they were allies, or more ally than enemy.  They send their students here, they invest in Canada, buy our armored vehicles, Canadians go and work in KSA.  Economically it is a positive relationship.

I believe the wife is only a Canadian citizen due to her fleeing. 

I am all for calling countries out but then there is such a long list we have to be careful.  The US has gitmo, capital punishment, drone strikes, etc, is some high minded liberal going to call them out?  What is going to happen if we actually get into a scrap over one of these insults?  If we are going to start acting all crazy let's at least beef our mil up and learn to get along with Trump.

I agree with your last statement.  I don't know exactly how we got here but they can fuck right off.   Did this account really just claim Saudi responsibility for the 9/11 attacks?  The attacks that have pushed the US into war in Afghanistan and Iraq for 17 years?

rb

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 10:52:36 PM »
RB,

No they were allies, or more ally than enemy.  They send their students here, they invest in Canada, buy our armored vehicles, Canadians go and work in KSA.  Economically it is a positive relationship.

I believe the wife is only a Canadian citizen due to her fleeing. 

I am all for calling countries out but then there is such a long list we have to be careful.  The US has gitmo, capital punishment, drone strikes, etc, is some high minded liberal going to call them out?  What is going to happen if we actually get into a scrap over one of these insults?  If we are going to start acting all crazy let's at least beef our mil up and learn to get along with Trump.

I agree with your last statement.  I don't know exactly how we got here but they can fuck right off.   Did this account really just claim Saudi responsibility for the 9/11 attacks?  The attacks that have pushed the US into war in Afghanistan and Iraq for 17 years?
No free lunch,

Alliances don't work like that. An alliance if a formal thing. Treaties, papers, all the jazz. One is either an ally or not an ally. The fact is that Saudi Arabia is not an ally. Some countries are allies, some countries are neither. They're just some country with which we just deal. To us Saudi Arabia is just that. Just some country.

I do agree with you that we have a normal economic relationship with Saudi Arabia. I would generally say that normal economic relationships are positive things. But that's all they are. Yes they bought some armored vehicles from us. So what? does that mean that we have to plop down and open our mouths? We buy a whole bunch of oil off of them too. In fact we buy more oil from them then they buy armored vehicles and other stuff from us. Why aren't they down with their mouths open? Yes I know I'm graphic but I'm trying to make a point. It seems these days if you're making a buck that's all that matters and all principles are expendable towards the virtue of that dollar.

As for calling countries out on human rights, we and others have called out bigger countries (China, Russia, etc...) on bigger stuff. China never threw a fit and said we won't sell stuff to Canada anymore. Between allies I'm sure there are discussions, albeit in more private forums, about issues when they come up. However our allies overwhelmingly have way more respect for human rights than KSA so those discussion are likely very few and far between.

I agree with you that the guy's wife is a citizen as a result of feeling here. But she is a citizen. As such she is entitled to the full rights and protections under the Canadian government on equal terms as any other citizen. There is no such thing as "kind of a citizen". While I understand the nuance in this case, I strongly disagree with the premise.

Basically, we called out a legitimate fact, they've had a complete over reaction. The idea that we should act like a vassal to KSA in exchange for a minor trading relationship is frankly laughable.

Cardboard

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 03:24:57 AM »
Regarding trade I hope that this could be an opportunity for somebody to finally educate our Eastern populace that they pay big bucks for their gasoline due to oil that comes from over there while we give away our own oil: 15 to 48% cheaper depending on grade.

If common folks knew the truth, you would see a big shift in sentiment.

Energy East or a variance should be top of the agenda considering the economic disadvantage, this dispute and NAFTA.

Cardboard

Spekulatius

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 04:01:14 AM »
Looks like the new Saudi Arabian regime has a twitchy trigger finger, lets see if they donít shoot themselves in the foot. I have to laud Canada here, they do the right thing.
To be a realist, one has to believe in miracles.

EliG

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Re: Canada fights Saudi
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2018, 05:13:18 AM »
Also, when exactly did human rights become a "liberal thing"? As I recall conservatives used to be pretty big on those things. Has that changed? Countries, including Canada, that respect human rights have a long history of calling out countries that don't. This is not a new thing.

Conservatives are proposing that we build Energy East and get rid of Saudi tankers sailing up the St. Lawrence river. Saudis may not care (their oil will go somewhere else) but at least it's a tangible response.

What are Liberals proposing, aside from tweeting at Saudis?

Replace Saudi oil with Canadian oil if you really care about human rights. Until then... it's just empty talk.