Author Topic: Justin Trudeau - one of the great prime ministers of Canada?  (Read 814 times)

shalab

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« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:59:15 PM by shalab »


doc75

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Re: Justin Trudeau - one of the great prime ministers of Canada?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 09:11:33 PM »
One of the greatest??? About the best I've heard said of him --and this is amongst my circle of friends,  who would typically be liberal voters --- is that he's doing better than they thought he might.  I disagree with that assessment.  He's performing more-or-less as poorly as I thought the inexperienced son of a former leader would do.  (All that said,  I was happy he pushed the previous smug a**hole out the door.)

One prime minister I was really disappointed in was Paul Martin.  I had high expectations.  But the minute he became PM he turned into a dithering old man.   

I miss the old Progressive Conservative party.  I think a lot of people have lost patience with style-over-substance progressive politicians  but don't like bombastic populists like Doug Ford or Kevin O'Leary etc.


EliG

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Re: Justin Trudeau - one of the great prime ministers of Canada?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 10:23:12 PM »
Wikipedia puts him at #10, fairly high for a new prime minister. But he has also had his share of scandals, how do our Canadian friends view him in terms of his greatness?

I guess you are referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Canada

It's not a Wikipedia ranking. It's a repackaged Maclean's magazine ranking.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/ranking-canadas-best-and-worst-prime-ministers/

Maclean's ranking is based on a survery of 123 scholars and journalists. This demographics leans liberal, so I question their neutrality. There is also some recency bias in that result. The survey was done close to Trudeau's post-election honey moon, before all the scandals you cited.

I don't know where Trudeau stands historically. I personally lived under four PMs. I rate Trudeau as the worst of the four, by a wide margin. I think he's just not smart enough for the job.

rb

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Re: Justin Trudeau - one of the great prime ministers of Canada?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 10:28:51 PM »
Well honestly, wikipedia isn't exactly an authority on the subject. And him being at number 10 doesn't actually mean much given that he's the 23rd prime minister of Canada. Plus some of those 23 haven't been around very long. Do you remember Kim Campbell? Yea neither do I, though 2 other prime ministers served less than her. So a number 10 rating is more like meh, you didn't screw up enough to be in the bottom half. So it's probably pretty accurate.

I honestly am not a die hard Trudeau fan. I think he's done ok. But honestly he hasn't had time to break one way either on the good side or the bad side. His dad has been in office for 15 years. He hasn't even had 3. But overall I'd say I'm quite happy with the policy side of things. Not so impressed with the quirkier things and I wish he'd cut that back a bit. But a lot of people seem to like that and I don't really give a shit what colour socks he wears so whatever.

In respect to the individual points you've raised:

The groping thing seems to be just political slinging. Someone dug up a decades old column that seems to say something and is trying to make something of it. No woman is stepping up with any allegation. Basically at this point I don't know what to think so we'll see how that develops.

The Agha Khan visit was a rookie mistake. I don't think there was any malfeasance there, but I do believe rules were broken. The issue died pretty quickly when it turned out that the leader of the Conservative party that was making a big stink of it more or less broke the same rules on a vacation. Even if I don't think that anything untoward happened I don't mind him getting kicked in the balls for it. We do have the rules in place and there's no better way to learn them then by getting kicked in the balls when you break them. The method also has the added bonus of teaching humility.

The Omar Khadr thing is messed up all around. Is the guy a terrorist? I don't know. Is anybody anything at 14-15 years of age? Are his family terrorists? Most definitely in my opinion. Am I happy that a whole slew of money went into that direction? Most definitely not! But we (as in the government) fucked up. The supreme court said we fucked up. In this country we have the rule of law and I like that. The rule of law applies to everyone, whether you're law abiding, a burglar or a terrorist. A government agent doesn't determine whether the rule of law applies or not. And when you break the law you pay. That's how it works. So do I blame Justin Trudeau for the money going to this guy? No. I blame the geniuses that thought that they don't have to follow the law.

The trip to to India is where you give yourself up as disingenuous on this post. Where you try to find a thread anywhere to pull at. Justin Trudeau went to India and wore some flowery shit. So what? Who cares of about an Indian trip? Does anything ever happen on an Indian trip? Stephen Harper went on an Indian trip in 2012. He also wore some funky stuff too - though not as extreme. Do you remember that trip? Nobody else does either. If you think that a prime minister's performance is gonna be dictated or influenced by a trip to India, you're seriously out to lunch.

rb

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Re: Justin Trudeau - one of the great prime ministers of Canada?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 11:00:23 PM »
One of the greatest??? About the best I've heard said of him --and this is amongst my circle of friends,  who would typically be liberal voters --- is that he's doing better than they thought he might.  I disagree with that assessment.  He's performing more-or-less as poorly as I thought the inexperienced son of a former leader would do.  (All that said,  I was happy he pushed the previous smug a**hole out the door.)

One prime minister I was really disappointed in was Paul Martin.  I had high expectations.  But the minute he became PM he turned into a dithering old man.   

I miss the old Progressive Conservative party.  I think a lot of people have lost patience with style-over-substance progressive politicians  but don't like bombastic populists like Doug Ford or Kevin O'Leary etc.
I liked Paul Martin a lot. I think he did great as a Finance Minister. I vote for him even as a die hard conservative. I don't think he turned into a dithering old man. He put up a good fight, but he was never gonna overcome the sponsorship scandal. The writing was on the wall. But if you were to make a comparison between Marin and Chretien, Chretien is most definitely the dirt under fingernails street fighter.

Since you've brought it up, I also miss the old Progressive Conservatives. I don't know if I'd vote one way or another, but I'd love a good, hard, intelligent debate on the issues to move the country forward. Instead we're left with Andrew Scheer and Doug Ford. What a shame!

shalab

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Re: Justin Trudeau - one of the great prime ministers of Canada?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 07:40:15 AM »
Rb, EliG and others, appreciate your color on this topic. Regarding relationship with India, I think it is more important than you think. Canada is giving a lot of visas to people from India. However, Canada, does very little trade with India.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/india-member-sikh-extremist-group-invited-trudeau-event-180222151525919.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/foreign-trade/india-canada-trade-likely-to-double-in-three-years-phd-chamber-of-commerce/articleshow/63048096.cms


Well honestly, wikipedia isn't exactly an authority on the subject. And him being at number 10 doesn't actually mean much given that he's the 23rd prime minister of Canada. Plus some of those 23 haven't been around very long. Do you remember Kim Campbell? Yea neither do I, though 2 other prime ministers served less than her. So a number 10 rating is more like meh, you didn't screw up enough to be in the bottom half. So it's probably pretty accurate.

I honestly am not a die hard Trudeau fan. I think he's done ok. But honestly he hasn't had time to break one way either on the good side or the bad side. His dad has been in office for 15 years. He hasn't even had 3. But overall I'd say I'm quite happy with the policy side of things. Not so impressed with the quirkier things and I wish he'd cut that back a bit. But a lot of people seem to like that and I don't really give a shit what colour socks he wears so whatever.

In respect to the individual points you've raised:

The groping thing seems to be just political slinging. Someone dug up a decades old column that seems to say something and is trying to make something of it. No woman is stepping up with any allegation. Basically at this point I don't know what to think so we'll see how that develops.

The Agha Khan visit was a rookie mistake. I don't think there was any malfeasance there, but I do believe rules were broken. The issue died pretty quickly when it turned out that the leader of the Conservative party that was making a big stink of it more or less broke the same rules on a vacation. Even if I don't think that anything untoward happened I don't mind him getting kicked in the balls for it. We do have the rules in place and there's no better way to learn them then by getting kicked in the balls when you break them. The method also has the added bonus of teaching humility.

The Omar Khadr thing is messed up all around. Is the guy a terrorist? I don't know. Is anybody anything at 14-15 years of age? Are his family terrorists? Most definitely in my opinion. Am I happy that a whole slew of money went into that direction? Most definitely not! But we (as in the government) fucked up. The supreme court said we fucked up. In this country we have the rule of law and I like that. The rule of law applies to everyone, whether you're law abiding, a burglar or a terrorist. A government agent doesn't determine whether the rule of law applies or not. And when you break the law you pay. That's how it works. So do I blame Justin Trudeau for the money going to this guy? No. I blame the geniuses that thought that they don't have to follow the law.

The trip to to India is where you give yourself up as disingenuous on this post. Where you try to find a thread anywhere to pull at. Justin Trudeau went to India and wore some flowery shit. So what? Who cares of about an Indian trip? Does anything ever happen on an Indian trip? Stephen Harper went on an Indian trip in 2012. He also wore some funky stuff too - though not as extreme. Do you remember that trip? Nobody else does either. If you think that a prime minister's performance is gonna be dictated or influenced by a trip to India, you're seriously out to lunch.