Author Topic: Free college  (Read 2351 times)

stahleyp

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Free college
« on: May 03, 2019, 05:59:43 AM »
I'm sure most here probably agree that free college is probably a bad idea. I'm sure most would also agree that college costs are out of control and the student debt load is harming the economy.

Rather than "free" college, why couldn't the government require any colleges who receive funding to not increase total college costs by more than inflation per year? That would control a lot of the future costs, I would think.

Further, I think it's wild that student loan interest is as high as it is. One would think a loan that is not dischargable in bankruptcy would be lower. I think a good use of funds might be something like very low (or no) interest on student loans assuming the loan is paid off, in full, within say 10 years. That encourages folks to keep paying since there's a benefit. Sure, taxpayers are subsidizing still but not nearly to the same degree.
Paul


stevevri

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Re: Free college
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2019, 07:02:17 AM »
One thing that would help dramatically is skin in the game.

Right now colleges reap a disproportionate benefits from the Federal Student Loan program. If students are struggling to pay or don't get value, the schools have no penalty, while the students are saddled with debt, that can not be discharged in bankruptcy. There is great incentive to raise costs since it just means more money for the schools and no concern about pay back or value for the students.


watsa_is_a_randian_hero

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Re: Free college
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2019, 07:17:14 AM »
Skin in the game is huge.  Colleges should not be eligible for FFELP loan receipts if default rates exceed a certain ratio.  That either forces colleges to contain costs or forces them to encourage higher-paying degrees.


Vish_ram

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Re: Free college
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2019, 07:51:16 AM »
USA has perfected a crooked form of capitalism in Education & Healthcare that has resulted in economic slavery for substantial part of the population.

The conditions are very ripe for a good old fashioned revolution if things go unchecked. The "powers be" have kept a lid by smoke and mirrors (focusing attention on guns, abortion, immigrants, race etc). If not resolved, this will bring down the house of cards.

I don't know what the solution is:

For starters,

Nationalize the production & distribution of must need generics (insulin etc)
Break textbook & scientific journal monopoly

DTEJD1997

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Re: Free college
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2019, 09:05:07 AM »
One thing that would help dramatically is skin in the game.

Right now colleges reap a disproportionate benefits from the Federal Student Loan program. If students are struggling to pay or don't get value, the schools have no penalty, while the students are saddled with debt, that can not be discharged in bankruptcy. There is great incentive to raise costs since it just means more money for the schools and no concern about pay back or value for the students.

All this talk about "free college" is ignoring one of the problems...NO politician is talking about the problem of the EDUCATORS.  Until THAT is addressed, you are going to have problems.

The skools get their money first.  Doesn't matter if they lie/fudge/obfuscate about the outcomes of their graduates or the value of their education.  Doesn't matter if they have a 50% unemployment/underemployment rate for their graduates.  Doesn't matter that the majority of graduates in DPS are functionally illiterate.  The amount of society's capital that is wasted/squandered in the USA education industrial complex is simply staggering.

The default rate is actually orders of magnitude higher than what is commonly reported.  In order to "default" on your student loans, you've got to be developmentally disabled OR hopelessly broke.  If you've got ANYTHING going on, you can get deferred payments OR get on IBR (income based repayment).

The real default rate should be the percentage of students who are NOT making regular payments (11 of 12 trailing months) towards their loans that cover BOTH interest AND something towards the principal of the loan.

If that were the standard, I think you would see the default rate easily exceed 50%.

If college is free, then what about the problems of all the fools who saved & worked to pay for their education?  All those whose worked extra hours and scrimped and saved to pay on their student loans?

What about the people who took out hundreds of thousands in student loans and can't get a job that pays ANYTHING near enough to pay back their loans?  They are jammed up for DECADES.

Finally, what protection do students have against a defective education?  They can't get their time & money back, nor can they get their loans discharged.  The educators get it all.  It appears to me that the way college is set up is simply to transfer $$$$ from government/society to educators with students stuck in the middle.

Mark my words, this is going to get traction in the future.

SharperDingaan

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Re: Free college
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2019, 09:22:08 AM »
Ontario has had free tuition for low income families for some time, and has just axed it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pc-government-tuition-fees-1.4981987

It was actually a very smart program, but was starting to be aggressively used by those going into the trades (food prep, bakers, cake makers, brewers, plumbers, welders, truck driving, nursing, etc.) - hence the 25% spike in usage. Too many trades students from poor families, were discovering that between free tuition and (on-line) textbooks, savings from co-op terms built into their program, and working part-time in their field while going to school; they could graduate in 2-3 years with certifications, experience, and debt free.

An unexpected consequence was pensioners returning to college to learn a trade (bread baking, cake making, welding, plumbing, etc) -  just for something to do. Incomes low enough to trigger free tuition, most other costs allready covered through pension, and work a few hours/week at your local grocery/metal shop (for more than minimum wage) just to stay in touch and do your own thing. With a little encouragement  ;)

Too many of the wrong people were starting to make a few bucks.

SD


 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 09:14:36 AM by SharperDingaan »

Parsad

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Re: Free college
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2019, 01:20:24 PM »
I'm sure most here probably agree that free college is probably a bad idea. I'm sure most would also agree that college costs are out of control and the student debt load is harming the economy.

Rather than "free" college, why couldn't the government require any colleges who receive funding to not increase total college costs by more than inflation per year? That would control a lot of the future costs, I would think.

Further, I think it's wild that student loan interest is as high as it is. One would think a loan that is not dischargable in bankruptcy would be lower. I think a good use of funds might be something like very low (or no) interest on student loans assuming the loan is paid off, in full, within say 10 years. That encourages folks to keep paying since there's a benefit. Sure, taxpayers are subsidizing still but not nearly to the same degree.

I'm a liberal on many things, but I don't believe in free college, nor should parent's pick up the tab for it.  Same with a car.  You can help your kid if you put away some money in a RESP or equivalent, but I think the student should be responsible for, and if they want to go, to college.  Not everyone should go to college! 

And if you have too much student debt, then you should have thought twice about taking it on, pay it, or file bankruptcy.  We are becoming a no consequence society!  I'm ok with them filing bankruptcy, because then there is a consequence.  If corporations can file for bankruptcy, why shouldn't overburdened personal debt holders...but you live with the consequences of bad credit.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

Gregmal

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Re: Free college
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2019, 01:35:04 PM »
Part of the "problem"(ie responsibility) with student loan debt, at least in the US, is that it is not dischargeable in bankruptcy.

stahleyp

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Re: Free college
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2019, 02:20:09 PM »
I definitely like the idea of losing funding if too many graduates go into default.

In some ways, I like not being able to discharge the debt in bankruptcy. There is a reason these laws were put into place. Supposedly, a lot of physicians and others would rack up a few hundred thousand $ in debt and then file. I think that if one files, there should be something more than a hit to credit. Perhaps giving up the degree and/or banned from practicing in the field where the degree was earned.

I used to be more liberal but I think a big reason liberalism has rallied over the past 40 years is due to debt. It's a lot easier to give money to others when governments aren't disciplined.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 02:43:33 PM by stahleyp »
Paul

SharperDingaan

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Re: Free college
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2019, 02:30:19 PM »
It really circles back to student maturity at the time the student takes on the debt.
There is no 'undo', or 'I was stupid' button, that forgives it - and there really shouldn't be. It's money secured against lifetime earnings, it allowed you to improve yourself, and if you make the wrong decisions you wear it. Society ain't mommy and daddy, and lenders ain't the forgiving type.

SD