Author Topic: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!  (Read 5950 times)

EliG

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 06:51:38 AM »
If the Democrats had organized this meeting with the exact same end result, the media and those in this thread would have called this the greatest peaceful diplomatic effort ever. Give them the Nobel Prize!

On the flip side, Fox News HATED the idea of Obama talking to foreign dictators. Guess how they feel about Trump doing it???

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/974315033994788865


rkbabang

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 06:56:28 AM »
If the Democrats had organized this meeting with the exact same end result, the media and those in this thread would have called this the greatest peaceful diplomatic effort ever. Give them the Nobel Prize!

On the flip side, Fox News HATED the idea of Obama talking to foreign dictators. Guess how they feel about Trump doing it???

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/974315033994788865


Yup, they are all hypocrites on both sides.  It's more about their team wining with absolutely no first principles driving any of their opinions.  If my team does it is good, if their team does it, it is bad.  Neither side is any better than the other when it comes to this.

CorpRaider

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 07:11:02 AM »
I don't think they are all hypocrites on both sides.  I think there are hypocrites on both sides (many) and one should endeavor to avoid polluting your mind, and society, with their views and to seek out and support the more principled, rational voices.

augustabound

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 07:13:15 AM »
What is this thread again? Another bout of Hillary didn't win?  :'(

If the Democrats had organized this meeting with the exact same end result, the media and those in this thread would have called this the greatest peaceful diplomatic effort ever.

And trying to reach peace with North Korea and Russia is not a bad idea IMO.

If another republican president were to organize a meeting people would have said it's the greatest peaceful diplomatic effort ever. This is Trump.

Reaching peaceful agreements with either of those nations should be a good idea but people don't trust him.
This isn't straight up republicans versus democrats. This is one guy that very few people in the world trust working with arguably the 2 most dangerous nations in the world and very few trust his motives.

I thought at this point something like that should be crystal clear.
"Serenity now, insanity later." - Lloyd Braun

rkbabang

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2018, 08:22:41 AM »
I don't think they are all hypocrites on both sides.  I think there are hypocrites on both sides (many) and one should endeavor to avoid polluting your mind, and society, with their views and to seek out and support the more principled, rational voices.

Yes, of course. I’ll rephrase that to there are many hypocrites on both sides.

I love this story. I guess wishing for an economic collapse is better than hoping for nuclear war, but the principle is the same only the magnitude is different. “Sorry if that hurts people”  I’m sure he isn’t.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bill-maher-is-hoping-for-an-economic-collapse-so-he-can-get-rid-of-trump-sorry-if-that-hurts-people

bobozou

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2018, 10:07:23 AM »
rkbabang - i just want to point out a subtle, but essential, difference between the following two statements (I don't follow maher, and I don't want to talk about politics)

1) "I wish for an economic collapse, to simply prove a point"

vs

2) "I wish for an economic collapse, to prove a point - in order to improve future decision making, and to create a better LONGTERM (vague, but generally implied to be significantly longer than a single human lifetime) outcome"

Often times, people are making statements that sound like the former, but really mean the latter

Without speaking to the American public's view of Trump & economy specifically, human beings (everywhere) are generally pretty poor at effectively drawing cause/effect relationships when a) things are complex/multi-variate, b) things are lagged (or not literally immediate), and c) things impact their own well-being.

netnet

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2018, 10:13:02 AM »
Quick question->Checking Munger's list of misjudgements, we have a number of factors including the lollapaloza in for a multiplied combination of factors for those Trump defenders.

Trump will go down as one of the worst presidents the US has ever had, just on foreign policy:
  • He seems hell bent on destroying the Atlantic alliance that won the cold war;
  • He denounces Trudeau (who doesn't get along with Canadians, for crissakes?) and
  • He effusively praises a man, who has killed his own uncle and own brother and starved his people to assemble an arsenal of nukes. Trump has given him status points and blind sided (again) a staunch ally, S. Korea, by stopping military exercises with nothing concrete in exchange. (the fact that we deal with other nasties, like PRC, is no excuse for Trump to give Kim the gift of being seen as an equal to the president of the US. This is an absolute and astonishing consession.  You have to deal with China given it's economic and geopolitical weight.
Trump is the textbook definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect
(I never post on the politics section because there (generally) no discussion or convincing just venting; so there, I have vented ;) )

Parsad

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2018, 11:20:24 AM »
Quick question->Checking Munger's list of misjudgements, we have a number of factors including the lollapaloza in for a multiplied combination of factors for those Trump defenders.

Trump will go down as one of the worst presidents the US has ever had, just on foreign policy:
  • He seems hell bent on destroying the Atlantic alliance that won the cold war;
  • He denounces Trudeau (who doesn't get along with Canadians, for crissakes?) and
  • He effusively praises a man, who has killed his own uncle and own brother and starved his people to assemble an arsenal of nukes. Trump has given him status points and blind sided (again) a staunch ally, S. Korea, by stopping military exercises with nothing concrete in exchange. (the fact that we deal with other nasties, like PRC, is no excuse for Trump to give Kim the gift of being seen as an equal to the president of the US. This is an absolute and astonishing consession.  You have to deal with China given it's economic and geopolitical weight.
Trump is the textbook definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect
(I never post on the politics section because there (generally) no discussion or convincing just venting; so there, I have vented ;) )

I don't know about this.  It's what I thought, but the results are mixed.  The man is a complete idiot in terms of grace, manners, intellect and is a total misogynist and a bigot.  But he knows what has worked for him over the years and he sticks to it like a stubborn mule...and if it works for him...then he truly believes it works for everyone else.  I read somewhere that his modus operandi is "No friends, no enemies!"  He unleashes chaos because it then creates confusion and opportunity.

Cardboard has gone off the deep end like many and swallowed the kool-aid, but the hardcore right-wing nutjobs did reveal something very important...that the democrats had become extremely complacent, and that there were as many nutjobs on this side as well! 

Now you have a divisive country, where the President is hell-bent on taking a wrecking ball to everything built over the last two administrations, in particular the administration that made fun of him.  Boy are people now regretting that correspondent's dinner where Obama enjoyed 2 minutes at Trump's expense...and Trump the petulant bully that he is will never let it go.  And you have a republican party that will now literally forgive anything Trump does...you could see lynchings again, and they would ignore it.

In the meantime, he succeeds slowly and steadily at executing his promises...by hook or crook (literally Scott Pruitt of the EPA is a crook), he's finding ways to get what he wants done.  And as long as the republicans get lower taxes and keep their guns, they will support this guy to the end of the world...and we just may see it!  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

nickenumbers

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2018, 11:59:58 AM »
Totally agree with Parsad.

Take the rule book, and standard politician motivations and incentives and throw it out the window when it comes to Trump.

I love watching the incumbent politicians and power brokers worry and plan against Trump and to date it has been like taking a whiz into the wind.

Amusing.

SharperDingaan

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Re: Hell Has Finally Frozen Over!
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2018, 12:35:46 PM »
The US has a way of dealing with disuptors that goes back a very long way. They serve for a while, then they don't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots

So far the man has lived for a very long time - but most would expect that the candle cannot have much left.
Were there an 'accident' tomorrow; would there be millions 'dancing in the streets', or just thousands with 'heads held low' ?
How many votes is that worth ??

SD
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 12:48:38 PM by SharperDingaan »