Author Topic: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear  (Read 998 times)

Gregmal

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2019, 07:23:07 AM »
https://nypost.com/2019/07/04/rep-justin-amash-quits-the-republican-party/

As long thought, Amash's "impeach Trump" rhetoric was just self serving nonsense. Setting the stage for his own Presidential bid. Once it became clear he likely wouldn't even get re-elected to his current position, what does he do? Use America's birthday as his own platform to further HIS cause.

The good news, is if he does run, it will just further help Trump. I know plenty of Republicans who were part of the Never Trump crowd and didn't vote for him in '16. He still won handily and I don't think his base has changed. Whereas Amash, lately a hero to the left, definitely pulls a lot of the moderate Democrat vote to an Independent. Many, many of the moderate Dems want nothing to do with the current mostest diversity contestants like Koomala, Pocahontas, and Bernie.

Maybe he can even team up with John Kasich...

1.) Amash is not a hero to the left
2.) He should be a hero to conservatives because he has the most conservative voting record in congress
3.) He is the most constitutionally grounded person in government
4.) He doesn't and hasn't taken bribes and money like everyone else. (see Ron Paul in the past)
5.) He has more pull than you think....Millennials are looking for a candidate that isn't the norm. Justin Amash pulls people from both sides of the isle. And I think down the road he could be a solid candidate.
6.) His agenda? I think you're simply mad that he left the party. Because everything he has done is political suicide and has strictly been out of principle. Tell me what he is gaining from doing this? His critical opinions of the government, congress and how we are operating is spot on. If you don't agree then I suggest you go read the Constitution and what past founding fathers have said (Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, etc). His article in The Washington post was spot on.
7.) Nothing wrong with using a significant day to gain attention as long as the intentions and motivation is good. What is more patriotic than pointing out the injustices and issues in government than on the very day which this country did exactly that against England?

I think your criticism against Amash unfounded as his record speaks for itself. And Greg I agree with and respect a lot of your opinions. Our current political climate is a direct result of the two party system.

1) His unsolicited public endorsement of impeachment did make him a hero(maybe chose a less hyperbolic term but you get the gist) to much of the left. Check all the headlines about "Republican favoring impeachment" and the shit storm that started.
2) I agree and have said prior I admire his voting record.
3) Agreed
4) Great, hopefully it stays that way. He is young (Im not saying that sarcastically either)
5) This is kind of what I'm getting at. Right now he is impotent. But he has the foundation to do something big. Certainly the seeds are sewn.
6) I don't care about parties. I am equally tired of the Republican Party although dont bitch about it nearly as much as I do the left simply because in principal, I am not as blown away by a lot of what they fight for, just by how they go about business. Whereas the left is straight up batshit crazy.
7) I kind of think there is. You're taking a day about America and making it about you.

I guess on a larger scale, I'd say the major thing is my disgust for typical politician behavior. They are snake oil car salesmen, except they aren't even selling you anything you can use. They are just telling people what they need to, to get what they want, with zero loyalty to anyone but themselves and "the vote numbers", with the goal being to eventually suck onto our tax dollars like leeches and enrich themselves. Amash had previously IMO been different than that. His latest moves to me, are riddled with classic politician attention stunts, and I guarantee this guy is a serious Presidential candidate in 2-4 election cycles. I wouldn't even be against voting for him. I just think he gave in here, and became a bit of what he tried so hard not to be for the longest time.


Castanza

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2019, 07:56:51 AM »
https://nypost.com/2019/07/04/rep-justin-amash-quits-the-republican-party/

As long thought, Amash's "impeach Trump" rhetoric was just self serving nonsense. Setting the stage for his own Presidential bid. Once it became clear he likely wouldn't even get re-elected to his current position, what does he do? Use America's birthday as his own platform to further HIS cause.

The good news, is if he does run, it will just further help Trump. I know plenty of Republicans who were part of the Never Trump crowd and didn't vote for him in '16. He still won handily and I don't think his base has changed. Whereas Amash, lately a hero to the left, definitely pulls a lot of the moderate Democrat vote to an Independent. Many, many of the moderate Dems want nothing to do with the current mostest diversity contestants like Koomala, Pocahontas, and Bernie.

Maybe he can even team up with John Kasich...

1.) Amash is not a hero to the left
2.) He should be a hero to conservatives because he has the most conservative voting record in congress
3.) He is the most constitutionally grounded person in government
4.) He doesn't and hasn't taken bribes and money like everyone else. (see Ron Paul in the past)
5.) He has more pull than you think....Millennials are looking for a candidate that isn't the norm. Justin Amash pulls people from both sides of the isle. And I think down the road he could be a solid candidate.
6.) His agenda? I think you're simply mad that he left the party. Because everything he has done is political suicide and has strictly been out of principle. Tell me what he is gaining from doing this? His critical opinions of the government, congress and how we are operating is spot on. If you don't agree then I suggest you go read the Constitution and what past founding fathers have said (Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, etc). His article in The Washington post was spot on.
7.) Nothing wrong with using a significant day to gain attention as long as the intentions and motivation is good. What is more patriotic than pointing out the injustices and issues in government than on the very day which this country did exactly that against England?

I think your criticism against Amash unfounded as his record speaks for itself. And Greg I agree with and respect a lot of your opinions. Our current political climate is a direct result of the two party system.

1) His unsolicited public endorsement of impeachment did make him a hero(maybe chose a less hyperbolic term but you get the gist) to much of the left. Check all the headlines about "Republican favoring impeachment" and the shit storm that started.
2) I agree and have said prior I admire his voting record.
3) Agreed
4) Great, hopefully it stays that way. He is young (Im not saying that sarcastically either)
5) This is kind of what I'm getting at. Right now he is impotent. But he has the foundation to do something big. Certainly the seeds are sewn.
6) I don't care about parties. I am equally tired of the Republican Party although dont bitch about it nearly as much as I do the left simply because in principal, I am not as blown away by a lot of what they fight for, just by how they go about business. Whereas the left is straight up batshit crazy.
7) I kind of think there is. You're taking a day about America and making it about you.

I guess on a larger scale, I'd say the major thing is my disgust for typical politician behavior. They are snake oil car salesmen, except they aren't even selling you anything you can use. They are just telling people what they need to, to get what they want, with zero loyalty to anyone but themselves and "the vote numbers", with the goal being to eventually suck onto our tax dollars like leeches and enrich themselves. Amash had previously IMO been different than that. His latest moves to me, are riddled with classic politician attention stunts, and I guarantee this guy is a serious Presidential candidate in 2-4 election cycles. I wouldn't even be against voting for him. I just think he gave in here, and became a bit of what he tried so hard not to be for the longest time.

At what point is it okay for a candidate to engage in the political game for attention? At the end of the day a candidate needs to market themselves in an effective manner. I can understand your opinion and line of thought regarding Amash and some of his recent opinions and choices. But how can we ever expect to get a decent principled candidate elected if they don't at least step in the batters box a few times. I mean we live in a society with zero attention span, zero ability to o research beyond a headline, zero common sense (for the most part), etc. If Amash can remain principled and has to enter the limelight in maybe "cheesy" ways every so often then I'm fine with that trade-off if it gets him the national attention. Would it not be worth it in the end? At least his current limelight appearances aren't simply about identity politics etc. He at least grounds them in principle. Now if he starts going on podcasts and talking about his ethnicity to pander to specific voter bases then yeah I'll lose a lot of respect for him. But even if he did that he is a better candidate then 100% of people we have seen in the past two decades (with the exception of Ron Paul imo).

At the end of the day marketing is what gets you elected. That's exactly why we need campaign reform and spending limits, lobbying limits etc. It's the biggest reason we end up with 10-20 morons every 4 years when we have what, 250 millionish eligible people.

Gregmal

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2019, 08:25:19 AM »
Don't disagree. I was just making the point that this is what his agenda is. He's got presidential ambitions, and is using these things to help his cause. Not out of genuine concern from the kindness of his heart. He's not quitting the party to walk away from a corrupt game. He's quitting the party to enhance his odds of playing and winning the game.

Castanza

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2019, 12:35:34 PM »
Don't disagree. I was just making the point that this is what his agenda is. He's got presidential ambitions, and is using these things to help his cause. Not out of genuine concern from the kindness of his heart. He's not quitting the party to walk away from a corrupt game. He's quitting the party to enhance his odds of playing and winning the game.

I just have a hard time believing that quitting one of the two parties is beneficial. I mean, when was the last time we had an independent candidate win or do well? Even at the congressional level it is extremely rare. If anything it's political suicide as MSM will gloss over this once headlines of him leaving quit capturing viewers. CNN doesn't care about Justin Amash. His voting record and opinions are 98% in disagreement with them. Fox will throw him under the bus.

I don't think it's fair to say his entire agenda is to pander. This decision isn't much different than all of his opinions, votes, and decisions in the past. It's just this one has gained more attention. I think he is principled and people genuinely admire that down the stretch. Yes, there was some political advantage (media wise) to what he did. But as John Madden once said "If a team doesn't put points on the board. I can't see how they can win!"

Gregmal

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2019, 12:47:33 PM »
Don't disagree. I was just making the point that this is what his agenda is. He's got presidential ambitions, and is using these things to help his cause. Not out of genuine concern from the kindness of his heart. He's not quitting the party to walk away from a corrupt game. He's quitting the party to enhance his odds of playing and winning the game.

I just have a hard time believing that quitting one of the two parties is beneficial. I mean, when was the last time we had an independent candidate win or do well? Even at the congressional level it is extremely rare. If anything it's political suicide as MSM will gloss over this once headlines of him leaving quit capturing viewers. CNN doesn't care about Justin Amash. His voting record and opinions are 98% in disagreement with them. Fox will throw him under the bus.

I don't think it's fair to say his entire agenda is to pander. This decision isn't much different than all of his opinions, votes, and decisions in the past. It's just this one has gained more attention. I think he is principled and people genuinely admire that down the stretch. Yes, there was some political advantage (media wise) to what he did. But as John Madden once said "If a team doesn't put points on the board. I can't see how they can win!"

On the surface that's what it is meant to look like. But Trump was a career Democrat and Pocahontas was a career Republican at another. People can and do change for a number of reasons; I would bet good money that at some point in the future he rejoins one of the two major parties and makes a big run. Thats all I'm saying. If I had to bet, seeing the weakness in the party, it would be as a moderate/centered Democrat.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 12:50:54 PM by Gregmal »

Castanza

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2019, 01:02:45 PM »
Don't disagree. I was just making the point that this is what his agenda is. He's got presidential ambitions, and is using these things to help his cause. Not out of genuine concern from the kindness of his heart. He's not quitting the party to walk away from a corrupt game. He's quitting the party to enhance his odds of playing and winning the game.

I just have a hard time believing that quitting one of the two parties is beneficial. I mean, when was the last time we had an independent candidate win or do well? Even at the congressional level it is extremely rare. If anything it's political suicide as MSM will gloss over this once headlines of him leaving quit capturing viewers. CNN doesn't care about Justin Amash. His voting record and opinions are 98% in disagreement with them. Fox will throw him under the bus.

I don't think it's fair to say his entire agenda is to pander. This decision isn't much different than all of his opinions, votes, and decisions in the past. It's just this one has gained more attention. I think he is principled and people genuinely admire that down the stretch. Yes, there was some political advantage (media wise) to what he did. But as John Madden once said "If a team doesn't put points on the board. I can't see how they can win!"

On the surface that's what it is meant to look like. But Trump was a career Democrat and Pocahontas was a career Republican at another. People can and do change for a number of reasons; I would bet good money that at some point in the future he rejoins one of the two major parties and makes a big run. Thats all I'm saying. If I had to bet, seeing the weakness in the party, it would be as a moderate/centered Democrat.

Personally I think the two party system is treading water. Millennial and the younger generations are hungry for something new. Not saying this election or the next. But within the next three election cycles I bet we get a third party candidate elected.

Gregmal

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Re: His Real Motivation Is Becoming Clear
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2019, 01:15:05 PM »
Don't disagree. I was just making the point that this is what his agenda is. He's got presidential ambitions, and is using these things to help his cause. Not out of genuine concern from the kindness of his heart. He's not quitting the party to walk away from a corrupt game. He's quitting the party to enhance his odds of playing and winning the game.

I just have a hard time believing that quitting one of the two parties is beneficial. I mean, when was the last time we had an independent candidate win or do well? Even at the congressional level it is extremely rare. If anything it's political suicide as MSM will gloss over this once headlines of him leaving quit capturing viewers. CNN doesn't care about Justin Amash. His voting record and opinions are 98% in disagreement with them. Fox will throw him under the bus.

I don't think it's fair to say his entire agenda is to pander. This decision isn't much different than all of his opinions, votes, and decisions in the past. It's just this one has gained more attention. I think he is principled and people genuinely admire that down the stretch. Yes, there was some political advantage (media wise) to what he did. But as John Madden once said "If a team doesn't put points on the board. I can't see how they can win!"

On the surface that's what it is meant to look like. But Trump was a career Democrat and Pocahontas was a career Republican at another. People can and do change for a number of reasons; I would bet good money that at some point in the future he rejoins one of the two major parties and makes a big run. Thats all I'm saying. If I had to bet, seeing the weakness in the party, it would be as a moderate/centered Democrat.

Personally I think the two party system is treading water. Millennial and the younger generations are hungry for something new. Not saying this election or the next. But within the next three election cycles I bet we get a third party candidate elected.

We can only hope.