Author Topic: The Twat of South Carolina!  (Read 2365 times)

cwericb

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Re: The Twat of South Carolina!
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2019, 07:57:26 AM »
Two other quotes that deserve comment:

1)  " "Weapons of war?"... AR-15 is not a weapon of war."

I never mentioned an AR-15, but since you brought it up, what exactly is its use? Hunting or shooting people?

2) “Prohibition has never worked in history. It only ever creates more black markets and hurts law abiding citizens.”
   
Agreed, we should have learned that in the 1920's & '30's.
So why is marijuana still federally illegal ?  And why are the Feds fighting with the States where it is legalized?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain


rukawa

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Re: The Twat of South Carolina!
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2019, 08:25:52 AM »
Quote
Its worth pointing out the history of failure in the cultures they originate from given that their advocacy of importing these values and ideas into the US

Who is the "they" and which "cultures" are you referring to, exactly? Last I checked AOC was born in the Bronx and represents a diverse group of Americans. But obviously you are referring to someone and something so please tell me more.

AOC and her ilk argue
1) Trump == man == white == American Institutions  == White Supremacy == capitalism == evil

Trump's counter is:
2) AOC  + Omar Ilhan == brown == shit-hole countries == socialism == evil

I'm saying that both those arguments are equally logical and rational. Once you get someone arguing 1) you should not really be surprised that someone argues 2).

What do I mean by they? They==brown==socialist==third-world-countries==whatever associations pop into my head. Omar Ilhan originates from Somalia and her Islamic Somali culture is the "culture" I'm referring to. And AOC's background is Latino and her Latino culture which I equate with ALL OF Latin America and all the worst things in it...like Hugo Chavez and drug cartels. And I conveniently ignore the best things about it. 

AOC's is born in the Bronx but you appear to be saying that the Latino culture she originates from is irrelevant. Do you mean it had zero influence on her? Is that what you are saying? Perhaps. But then American white supremacy should also largely be considered an irrelevant argument when it comes to debating the merits of Capitalism, the US constitution etc. And Trump and Kavanaugh identities as white males should also be irrelevant. They should just be considered Americans like AOC. A capitalism should be thought of as an economic system and judged on its merits.

The Left appears to want carte blanche to use talk about history the don't like, background they don't like, identities they think are "problematic" and ties these things to people or ideas in order to smear them. They also love attaching themselves to identities they like: Warren is native Indian, Kamala is black etc. And than they are shock SHOCKED when someone starts criticizing their beloved identities as POC's. If being a POC with a Latin background is the fantastic according the left. Than an equally valid argument is that its actually really bad and horrible thing. And that is exactly what Trump is arguing. And if being white is horrible for all sorts of reason having to do with history and background...than its equally valid to argue that being white is a great thing.

Welcome to identity politics!! Isn't it wonderful!!!
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:12:37 AM by rukawa »

rukawa

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Re: The Twat of South Carolina!
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2019, 08:56:57 AM »
"Again taking shit out of context just to further your socialist nonsense."

That is right, then this guy proudly says that he goes to the fanciest and most expensive restaurants in Montreal and wherever else.

It just doesn't add up. These guys earn and spend like drunken sailors, then they say that the rich should fix the issues. Don't they realize that they are part of the inequality???

Cardboard

Yup lol. Just like "I bet you had a privileged upbringing LC".... to which he responds, "that's not relevant"....

Perhaps its relevant (I didn't even read the context) but I don't like it. I think this way of arguing is bad and I've always despised it. I blame this on the Left. Its a tendency that began a long time ago to argue the person instead of the point.

Now I always see arguments basing things on peoples personal backgrounds or their histories or lack of experience. So a person can't argue a point because they have never known what it like to be poor...blah blah blah.

You go back 200 years and you see these arguments a lot less than now. I don't remember Muslim philosophers criticizing Aristotle because he was  a Greek apologist. They were perfectly willing to accept the idea that the philosophy developed by some Greek polytheist living in a foreign country and the arguments he made could have applicability to all people including strict monotheists. The ideas were universal and the arguments had to be dealt with on their own merits..not on the person background.

To me that is better.

I also think that this is just a gutter debate tactic that is used to shut argument down. Because I think in a nation of 300 million people, if LC shopped around he could find some poor person would argue the exact same way he is. Would his argument than be more "correct"? So than is that what is being asked? That LC find this person and get him to argue this to make his previously invalid argument a valid one?! If so isn't this an obviously stupid stupid thing to ask? Why the hell would you ask it...just to shut someones argument down without actually dealing with it.

I hate it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:08:17 AM by rukawa »

LC

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Re: The Twat of South Carolina!
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2019, 10:09:39 AM »
Quote
What do I mean by they? They==brown==socialist==third-world-countries==whatever associations pop into my head. Omar Ilhan originates from Somalia and her Islamic Somali culture is the "culture" I'm referring to. And AOC's background is Latino and her Latino culture which I equate with ALL OF Latin America and all the worst things in it...like Hugo Chavez and drug cartels. And I conveniently ignore the best things about it. 
Right but I mean, I know you realize this is wrong. Both 1) and 2) are fallacious.

Quote
But then American white supremacy should also largely be considered an irrelevant argument when it comes to debating the merits of Capitalism, the US constitution etc. And Trump and Kavanaugh identities as white males should also be irrelevant. They should just be considered Americans like AOC. A capitalism should be thought of as an economic system and judged on its merits.
I completely agree!

Quote
Than an equally valid argument is that its actually really bad and horrible thing. And that is exactly what Trump is arguing.
And two wrongs don't make a right! He's the president, of course he will be attacked. But what kind of president incites this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abx0QPRyBY0

This is why when Cardboard and Greg try to make things personal, I ignore them (and it's also pretty funny to me, because they're dead wrong ;D). But I know you realize this too because you call it out in your second post. Which I appreciate.

I wind up agreeing with you on most topics and I think this is another one. Identity politics is illogical and we should be debating things like capitalism and systematic racism and gun violence on their facts (as some in this thread are doing, and cheers to them).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 10:45:34 AM by LC »
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cubsfan

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Re: The Twat of South Carolina!
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2019, 02:01:33 PM »

Welcome to identity politics!! Isn't it wonderful!!!

Yup - thank President Obama for our atmosphere of divisiveness. How do you think he won re-election?
He took identity politics to a new art form, since his policies were bullshit and his leadership weak.

Obama had the opportunity to be GREAT and unite this country as 1 people - Americans.
But he chose the divisive strategy of campaigning on "us versus them" - black vs white, brown vs white,
black vs the police, etc....

This strategy worked GREAT for Obama - but in the process has DESTROYED the Democratic Party as it was once recognized.
Now EVERYTHING is identity policitics and race - us vs them. ALL the Democrats are using Obama's strategy - but it WON'T work, thank God.

It will be hard work - but Trump will DESTROY Obama's legacy for the good of the country.

I can't wait.

Castanza

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Re: The Twat of South Carolina!
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2019, 05:20:26 PM »
“Have you ever even looked at gun statistics? Sounds like you're just spouting complete nonsense.”
“Let me know when those gun laws start to work.”


You asked for statistics?

Stats for 2016:
US deaths by hand gun: 7105
CAN deaths by hand gun: 130

US population:    323 million
Can. Pop  :              35 million
 
2018 Stats: (Toronto & Chicago Geographically close & have a similar population)
Toronto gun homicides     51
Chicago gun  homicides  292
 
Canada has stricter gun laws than the US.
Homicides by hand guns in the united States (adjusted for population) is FIVE times that in Canada

Care to explain?

Firstly, I think it's stupid to compare cities with different cultures on gun violence. I can point you to Venezuela or any number of South American countries who have complete gun bans and show you that they also have the most violent crimes and highest murder rates. Does this void your argument on gun laws? No...but it proves the point that laws don't matter and it's all about cultural issues. There are mixtures of laws and cultures all over the globe that have varying statistics on firearm murders. You're comparing two cities that are completely culturally different. Are you also aware that gun homicides have been on the rise in Toronto for the past four years? Why is this? It's the same reason gun violence is bad in the us. Gangs. 80% of gun related homicides in Chicago are due to gangs. Lets not forget the fact that you glossed over where these people obtained these guns. In the US its less than 7% of crimes commuted with guns are obtained legally. Some would argue that people in Chicago are simply getting guns from nearby states with more relaxed gun laws (Indiana) this is also untrue and the proof is in the pudding. It's less than 20% of guns in Chicago come from outside sources. If access to guns is what causes violence then why are cities in Indiana not experiencing the same issues?

In a later post you say something about drugs and seem to assume that I think drugs should be illegal? Not sure where you got that idea, but I don't. I think the majority of crime and gang related crime is due to drugs. I think people should be able to do what they want. But it is funny that you cite in that very sentence how prohibition never works. Yet here you are calling for prohibition of guns.

And for the record I am not necessarily against changes or a new approach to guns in the US. I like the approach that Switzerland has with guns. They have a very high per capita gun ownership rate (including semi-automatic firearms) and their violent crime and homicide rate with firearms is extremely low. Almost non-existent.

At the end of the day the US has mental health, cultural, drug, and gang issues. None of these things have anything to do with guns per capita. One it's an unsolvable issue. There are simply way too many guns for anyone to try an confiscate them. Two it's political pandering....They demonize AR=15's yet less than 3% of all gun related deaths are caused by rifles and AR-15s are estimated to be less than 1/10th of a percentage of the total rifle deaths. So if people really cared about the issue they would be focusing on handguns. Or better yet focus on the actual issue; drugs, low income areas, and cultural issues and especially mental health issues.

Our government can't even keep drugs out of super max prisons and you think they will keep guns out of the hands of criminals? Good luck with that. I'd rather not let the government have a monopoly on violence and maybe prevent things like Kent State, National Guard during Katrina, or any host of the examples where government has used excessive force. And if you think it'stupid to say citizens would never need to or be able to fend of the government I'll gladly point you to some rice farmers in Vietnam. Not to mention you completely miss the number of lives guns have saved in the US which is estimated to be between 500k and 1.3mil a year. Break the raw data down even further and analyze it at a state level and the data becomes even less correlated in terms of gun ownership and murder rates. The areas in the US with the strictest gun laws account or the majority of the gun related crime. Remove them and the US is better than most of the world.

Go look at the stabbing rates in the UK....higher murder rate than NYC.
- https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/18/knife-crime-england-wales-police
Look at the guy in Japan who recently killed and injured 30 people with a knife and some gasoline. Or the host of other mass stabbings and hammer related incidents.


Another example:

http://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/australia-homicide-rate-before-after-gun-ban.jpg
https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/styles/full_width/s3/homicide_51yr.JPG?itok=UueKA-Bt

Australia homicide rate year of ban (1997): 1.6

Australia homicide rate the last year of the chart (2012): 1.2

Total reduction: ~30%

US homicide rate in 1997: 6.8

US homicide rate in 2012: 4.6

Total reduction: ~30%

Total guns owned by Americans: 1997: ~240 Million; 2012: ~330 Million

So the total homicide rate dropped at nearly the same rate in both Australia and the US over the same period of time despite the fact that guns were largely banned in Australia while the total number in the US rose by 90 million. It can't be stated enough that "more guns = more homicides" is an questionably false statement. The total number of guns in the US appears to have nothing to do with total homicides either in the positive or negative direction.

I'm not opposed to mandated firearm training and things like that. I think it would be beneficial and if you go by the Constitution "well regulated militia, I think that fits just fine.

People kill people....not inanimate objects.