Author Topic: Net Neutrality  (Read 13761 times)

LC

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2019, 01:39:05 PM »
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/438100-house-votes-to-reinstate-obama-era-net-neutrality-rules

The House has passed a bill to reinstate net neutrality protections.

Can't wait for Senate Republicans to kill this one  :-[
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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rkbabang

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2019, 06:29:05 AM »
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/438100-house-votes-to-reinstate-obama-era-net-neutrality-rules

The House has passed a bill to reinstate net neutrality protections.

Can't wait for Senate Republicans to kill this one  :-[

Right because the internet has been unusable for the last few years.  Comcast has increased my internet speed multiple times in the last two years and not increased my bill.  But I understand that is impossible, so it must be an illusion.  They are in cahoots with the speedtest websites or something.  4K netflix shows are still streaming fine, but that must be a Comcast illusion too somehow.  I don't know why I'm even typing this reply, because with the broken internet it will never get through unless CoBF pays an extra bribe to the ISPs.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 06:31:50 AM by rkbabang »

LC

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2019, 06:36:52 AM »
Your anecdote is insignificant - most people do not receive free product improvements (probably the opposite).

If service has not changed, why remove neutrality protections in the first place?
"Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style."
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rkbabang

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2019, 07:28:03 AM »
Your anecdote is insignificant - most people do not receive free product improvements (probably the opposite).

If service has not changed, why remove neutrality protections in the first place?

Do you have data to that effect?  Why have government regulate something that isn't a problem?  As far as I can tell, none of the dystopian predictions about ending net neutrality came to be.

LC

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2019, 09:19:09 AM »
Your anecdote is insignificant - most people do not receive free product improvements (probably the opposite).

If service has not changed, why remove neutrality protections in the first place?

Do you have data to that effect?  Why have government regulate something that isn't a problem?  As far as I can tell, none of the dystopian predictions about ending net neutrality came to be.

I have no data on change in broadband service over the past 2 years - only my own anecdotal experience (no improvement in comcast/xfinity service, higher prices).

The only other data point I have is that the promises from Ajit Pai that the repeal of NN would lead to increased investment and job growth have been false - I posted a few links earlier that have shown both job cuts and lower capex spending from the major providers.

My best guess is these cuts would have occurred completely independently of whether NN laws were in effect or not.

After all, NN laws are essentially resource-light data traffic treatments. That is, there is a very low cost of implementation and compliance. We can deduce this because if compliance costs were in fact very expensive, we would have seen a jump in financial performance for the major providers when these compliance costs were removed (i.e. the last 2 years), which we did not see.

So at the end of the day, we have seen (1) no measurable change in services provided as, and (2) no significant cost-savings from repeal of NN legislation. In other words, whether we have NN laws in place or not, there is no real difference either way.

So to answer your question as to "well why have them at all?", I would say that the benefit of NN laws are they are a check to prevent a potential problem.
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rkbabang

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2019, 10:43:29 AM »
Preemptive regulations assume that the regulations themselves might never cause a problem in the future, but that is not always true.  And the problem with unnecessary regulations is that you can't always easily see the problems they cause, because it is often the products that never come to market, or the businesses that never get started, or the innovations that never happen.  Even if a problem does show up, the first inclination should be to see if regulations can be removed to create more competition in the industry.   And if all else fails, give the market 10-20 years to see if it can solve the problem on its own or if the problem becomes obsolete.  Regulations are the nuclear option which should (almost?) never be used.

LC

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2019, 10:53:42 AM »
Quote
Preemptive regulations assume that the regulations themselves might never cause a problem in the future, but that is not always true.  And the problem with unnecessary regulations is that you can't always easily see the problems they cause, because it is often the products that never come to market, or the businesses that never get started, or the innovations that never happen.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on this statement. However, considering we have no evidence one way or the other, the most we can do is discuss whether net neutrality regulation would inherently lead to such an outcome. What about treating all network traffic equally would hinder innovation or cause future problems? Just as a thought experiment, can you envision any?

I’d argue most advancements we have seen over the internet have occurred because network traffic from “new” ideas could not be discriminated against by providers. In other words, for ~30 years net neutrality created a level playing field so the little guys could compete with the big guys.

So we have to ask ourselves, what problems do we envision being caused by equal treatment of network traffic, vs. pay-per-lane?

As a consumer I can envision more potential problems with the latter vs. the former- and the vast majority of consumers (across all political parties) happen to agree.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 01:38:56 PM by LC »
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Spekulatius

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2019, 03:35:48 AM »
Net neutrality is cheap insurance against abuse. It doesn’t really cost anything significant to implement. It is designed to prevent the provider from stifling traffic over the internet or bar new services from being accessible.

There was concern in the past  that providers would stifle new services like phone over the internet or streaming for commercial reasons. This ended up not happening (probably because providing broadband ended up being more profitable I guess), but that doesn’t mean that it can’t happen in the future. The cable and phone companies are close to oligopolies, so they are regulated currently and should be.
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SharperDingaan

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Re: Net Neutrality
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2019, 06:34:32 AM »
The reality is that Net Neutrality SOUNDS great, but doesn't actually exist.
At even given time the government of the land can, and frequently does, cut off net access.
Just not always succcessfully.

Throttle, restrict, take down a website; and you have censored the net. Yet censorship has endured for centuries, and is widely practiced throughout the world. Sometimes we call it propaganda, sometimes we proclaim it in the interest of national security. Automating the process doesn't suddenly make it vanish.

The time tested 'antidote' to censorship is competition. My 'voice of authority' versus yours, until we eventually have a winner.
My net versus yours, my services offering better 'value-add' than yours.
For a price.

SD