Author Topic: Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers  (Read 3939 times)

globalfinancepartners

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2018, 09:08:30 AM »
I took some time out of my day yesterday to take an illegal immigrant to a job interview.  He is 21 and from El Salvador, but still in High School.  He has a Social Security card that says, "valid for work only with DHS authorization" and a number.  It is a legitimate card, issued to illegal immigrants that have been allowed to work in this country, however temporarily.  I took him to Antoine's restaurant in the French Quarter and he got a job as a dishwasher paying $10/hour.  He will no doubt have deductions from his paycheck like all on-the-books employees.  Somehow I doubt he will ever collect on any of the programs those deductions go towards funding.

I just don't see this as one of the big problems facing our nation at the moment.  There are bigger issues that need attention than our neighbors seeking in to wash the dishes for $10/ hour.


MarkS

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2018, 09:25:06 AM »
That was awfully nice of you to take time out to help that young man.  But I have a question.  The SSN with that restriction is issued to aliens who are legally in the country.  You said he was illegal.  How did he get that card?

cubsfan

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2018, 09:49:56 AM »
All I'm saying is let's not pretend undocumented immigrants are voting in the same proportion as citizens. There may be some data that suggests they are voting illegally and that is a problem I will agree, but it isn't swinging elections. There is just not enough undocumented immigrants as a % of the population for that to happen right now. Also, in California, the hot bed of all this illegally voting due to the issuance of drivers licenses, the driver's license you are issued if you cannot prove US citizenship is called an ab60. It cannot be used for ID at any federal facility and the option to register to vote is disabled at the DMV (Box is greyed out) and online. So it would seem these people may have a few more hoops to jump through to get into a polling place than just their ab60 license.

You're are underestimating the voting issue big time - look at the election results. Trump won a large state like Michigan by 12,000 votes.

Don't tell me that 12,000,000 illegal immigrants can not sway an election.

The Democrats message to their traditional working class strongholds: Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania - we don't care about you.
Trump won them by the narrowest of margins.

The American people repudiated the Obama agenda precisely because the Democratic Party is no longer the party of the working class.
Middle America has been hollowed out and left behind by Obama and the Democratic Party.

This election was a referendum on 2 things:  Jobs and Illegal immigration

Trump spoke directly to the working class about the 2 key issues they cared about: Bringing back jobs and Build the Wall.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 01:48:38 PM by cubsfan »

cubsfan

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2018, 09:53:59 AM »
I took some time out of my day yesterday to take an illegal immigrant to a job interview.  He is 21 and from El Salvador, but still in High School.  He has a Social Security card that says, "valid for work only with DHS authorization" and a number.  It is a legitimate card, issued to illegal immigrants that have been allowed to work in this country, however temporarily.  I took him to Antoine's restaurant in the French Quarter and he got a job as a dishwasher paying $10/hour.  He will no doubt have deductions from his paycheck like all on-the-books employees.  Somehow I doubt he will ever collect on any of the programs those deductions go towards funding.

I just don't see this as one of the big problems facing our nation at the moment.  There are bigger issues that need attention than our neighbors seeking in to wash the dishes for $10/ hour.

You don't see it because you don't live in California, where the middle class is fleeing because crime is up and the schools have been ruined.
You should move to Bakersfield or Fresno, etc - you'll sing a different tune with the highest taxes in the country and the worst infrastructure and schools.

DTEJD1997

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2018, 10:11:24 PM »
I don't live in California.  But as I understand it all you need is a utility bill as a form of ID.  https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/what-bring/
If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

You're other assumption - that they're aren't enough illegal votes to matter doesn't account for close races like the Franken vs Coleman race in 2008,  which came down to about 300 votes.  As I remember, electing Franken gave the Dems enough of a margin to pass Obamacare.

I have been saying and seeing for years & years that there are more illegals (MILLIONS) in this country than most people think/realize.  In many parts of my life, I interact personally and professionally with warehouse workers/managers, restaurant workers, contractors, landscaping, and other "blue collar" professions. 

I would theorize that a lot of people "on the corner" have limited interaction with blue collar jobs/workers.  Thus, they think that number of illegals is much less than what it is because of limited interaction/exposure.

Recently, a study comes out with the conclusion that there are more illegals than previously thought.  Please see:

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates

Now this is coming from Yale, so just keep that in mind!


Cigarbutt

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2018, 05:17:05 AM »
I have been saying and seeing for years & years that there are more illegals (MILLIONS) in this country than most people think/realize.  In many parts of my life, I interact personally and professionally with warehouse workers/managers, restaurant workers, contractors, landscaping, and other "blue collar" professions. 

I would theorize that a lot of people "on the corner" have limited interaction with blue collar jobs/workers.  Thus, they think that number of illegals is much less than what it is because of limited interaction/exposure.

Recently, a study comes out with the conclusion that there are more illegals than previously thought.  Please see:

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates

Now this is coming from Yale, so just keep that in mind!
Thanks. That was a good read, even if coming from a 3rd rate institution. :)

Ages ago it seems, during formative years, I had to spend some time learning about public health concrete applications. A study had just came out suggesting the number of drivers on highways not respecting the legal high speed limit was much higher than previously thought. When asked about fixing the problem, I had responded that the law should simply be enforced (more police presence, higher speeding tickets). The wise mentor had added that perhaps the problem should be appraised from several angles as, with all phenomena, one has to try put himself or herself into the mind of the drivers.

Some thoughts:
-Study appears well done but first reflex when new conclusions fall outside of standard deviations is to double check or look for confirmation elsewhere.
-Rules and laws can be noble and rational but don't mean much if they are not applicable.
-If the "problem" is so huge and "tolerated" (although variably), it likely means that there are not only disadvantages and solutions are likely to be complex and require an open and constructive perspective.
-When assessing the dynamic positive and negative reinforcements of the issue, a way to decrease net migration is to make the US a less better place. However, this tool comes with undesirable side effects should be used carefully.

Question for wiser minds:
Somehow and recurrently, good plans seem to come up but never make it. Why?
https://www.cfr.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2009/08/Immigration_TFR63.pdf

randomep

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2018, 07:44:13 AM »
Illegal aliens don't vote  and likely drain way more revenue than pay in taxes.  Why is it a benefit for Democratic Party to encourage the growth of illegals?

Illegals can easily vote with fake id's - in return the Democratic Party in CA and IL promise lots of expanded social services for them.
This has been a clear strategy started in California - and has permanently flipped CA to Democratic. It recently spread to NV and NM
and the hope it will continue to Texas and the rest of the Southwest.

So who here thinks that illegals would go to the polling booth (which in their mind would risk deportation) and try to influence a election. If you think so, can you tell me how many illegals votes there are? and how many is the minimum needed to influence a election (congress, or presidency or whatever)

There are so many ridiculously wrong things with this train of thought to me on the same lines as people who deny we went to the moon.

Well then, why in the world would they risk deportation by applying for a driver's license?
Why would they risk that Mr. genius?

Heck, they can ever commit felonies in California - and there is no risk they get deported!

It doesn't take a genius to understand that you cannot function w/o a license.  You get arrested everyday for driving w/o a license means you cannot make a living which defeats your purpose in coming to the USA.

There is no benefit for an illegal to go to a polling booth. See the big difference? I can't believe I have to explain this.

cubsfan

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2018, 07:55:22 AM »
Illegal aliens don't vote  and likely drain way more revenue than pay in taxes.  Why is it a benefit for Democratic Party to encourage the growth of illegals?

Illegals can easily vote with fake id's - in return the Democratic Party in CA and IL promise lots of expanded social services for them.
This has been a clear strategy started in California - and has permanently flipped CA to Democratic. It recently spread to NV and NM
and the hope it will continue to Texas and the rest of the Southwest.

So who here thinks that illegals would go to the polling booth (which in their mind would risk deportation) and try to influence a election. If you think so, can you tell me how many illegals votes there are? and how many is the minimum needed to influence a election (congress, or presidency or whatever)

There are so many ridiculously wrong things with this train of thought to me on the same lines as people who deny we went to the moon.

Well then, why in the world would they risk deportation by applying for a driver's license?
Why would they risk that Mr. genius?

Heck, they can ever commit felonies in California - and there is no risk they get deported!

It doesn't take a genius to understand that you cannot function w/o a license.  You get arrested everyday for driving w/o a license means you cannot make a living which defeats your purpose in coming to the USA.

There is no benefit for an illegal to go to a polling booth. See the big difference? I can't believe I have to explain this.

You are a fool brother. An illegal enters the country illegally. Then the illegal is afforded the privilege of getting a driver's license without any documentation.
With that driver's license, the illegal, then walks into a voting station, and can vote.

As mentioned by others - ICE is not hanging around voting booths looking to arrest illegals.

Though, it was a nice try on your part brother to try to explain to me something so stupid on your part.

MarkS

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2018, 08:02:36 AM »
Randomep

Correct me if I'm wrong - But as I understand it in California all you need is a utility bill as a form of ID.  https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/what-bring/

cubsfan

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Re: illegal immigrants and stolen social security numbers
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2018, 08:24:36 AM »
Illegal aliens don't vote  and likely drain way more revenue than pay in taxes.  Why is it a benefit for Democratic Party to encourage the growth of illegals?

Illegals can easily vote with fake id's - in return the Democratic Party in CA and IL promise lots of expanded social services for them.
This has been a clear strategy started in California - and has permanently flipped CA to Democratic. It recently spread to NV and NM
and the hope it will continue to Texas and the rest of the Southwest.

This claim that "illegals are voting in droves" is commonly stated as fact, and equally commonly refuted as fiction.

Can you share any evidence of illegals voting under fake IDs in large numbers?  I thought Trump himself disbanded his committee looking into this because the problem essentially doesn't exist on any material scale.  But you are utterly convinced, so what evidence made you so convinced?

It's always struck me as a strange claim from a game theory point of view.  I would think the average illegal immigrant would want to stay as low profile as possible, and in particular avoid voluntary actions that require citizenship.  Sure, as a whole, the group may benefit by pushing Democrats into power... but people look out for themselves first, and it seems almost implausible that huge numbers would be taking on any additional risk to make their single vote count.

As mentioned previous many times, there is little risk of deportation for voting - they get a voter ID without documentation and it's done.

ICE has been neutered by Obama. Immigration law was made toothless by his executive orders.

Of course, it's in their interests to vote with their ID's. They are promised many social services available to US citizens....They wield great political power as a group.
If there are 12-22 millions illegals in this country, why is it so hard to believe that 25 or 30% might be voting? Look what's at stake for them.

Do you actually believe that low profile means, they hide all day long?  They don't risk being out in public and living their lives like normal people?
They are sending their children to our school everyday, they are shopping and interacting with the public, they are going to work, they are using their
fake id's all the time to function in the country, they are banking in our banks.  What's the big deal about voting?