Author Topic: Result of Mueller Investigation  (Read 10020 times)

cwericb

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 04:25:44 AM »
“Trump has never been indicted, charged, whatever, by anyone other than the fools on the left who hate him...”

Aren’t you just cherry picking the facts or just ignoring them?

Of course he hasn’t been indicted or charged. Barr does not believe that a sitting president can be indicted or charged. If that is your argument, you have to admit it is pretty weak.


“The public doesn't deserve anything.”
 

And that attitude is the problem. Do you seriously believe that? Isn’t that what any dictator would believe? What ever happened to democracy?
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DTEJD1997

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 04:56:50 AM »
Hey all:

Seems to me like the SDNY is asleep at the switch!

When Trump was a private citizen and simply "staying in his lane", everything is cool.

Now that he is President, he needs to be investigated and prosecuted?

Why wasn't this done before hand?  They only figured it out now?  Seems politically motivated.

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2019, 05:16:43 AM »
Hey all:

Seems to me like the SDNY is asleep at the switch!

When Trump was a private citizen and simply "staying in his lane", everything is cool.

Now that he is President, he needs to be investigated and prosecuted?

Why wasn't this done before hand?  They only figured it out now?  Seems politically motivated.

SDNY would have had to be aware of the crimes in order to investigate. When you decide to become President, you should expect to be transparent with your finances but enough voters didn’t care about that before he was elected. Now people are talking and records are coming forward so they will have to investigate.

Has anyone else watched The Family Business: Trump and Taxes? Any voter, after watching that, should want him out of office. It comes across much more credible than POTUS and his team.
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Gregmal

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2019, 06:14:43 AM »
“Trump has never been indicted, charged, whatever, by anyone other than the fools on the left who hate him...”

Aren’t you just cherry picking the facts or just ignoring them?

Of course he hasn’t been indicted or charged. Barr does not believe that a sitting president can be indicted or charged. If that is your argument, you have to admit it is pretty weak.


“The public doesn't deserve anything.”
 

And that attitude is the problem. Do you seriously believe that? Isn’t that what any dictator would believe? What ever happened to democracy?

First, Mueller obviously did not feel strongly enough to indict, so he passed. Second, I agree totally with the argument they made. Trump didn't collude with Russia. He didn't do anything he believed was wrong. So all these bums want to keep interfering with him? Harassing him for info that stems solely from an attack derived from Hillary Clinton and the establishment? Of course I wouldn't cooperate or make their lives easy either. But now, those type of actions are what YOU GUYS want to base an obstruction charge on? Despite the entire basis of the investigation exonerating him and proving he was right from the beginning? Please. Come on...

As I said, the American public doesnt deserve anything if releasing the report is just going to be an excuse for people who have 100% already made up their minds to just keep pushing a narrative the has already been declared false. In addition to these, there are disclosure standards and precedent in terms of releasing items like this. For instance, subpoena material is almost always redacted. Yet here, you have a bunch of losers like Nadler and Schiff, already painting the picture that if anything is redacted(whether supported by precedent) that it is some grand scheme and cover up and THAT is treasonous and undermining the president and frankly the entire system.

I am hardly a fan of "the system", but what these guys are doing, purely with partisan motives, is absurd.

LC

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2019, 09:41:34 AM »

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As I said, the American public doesnt deserve anything if releasing the report is just going to be an excuse for people who have 100% already made up their minds to just keep pushing a narrative the has already been declared false

I see - so now the public doesn't deserve anything if blah blah blah. Way to backtrack.

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In addition to these, there are disclosure standards and precedent in terms of releasing items like this.
I totally agree. Let's stick with precedent. If you recall, the most recent report of this nature was the Ken Starr report about the one and only Bill Clinton.

After the four year investigation of Clinton, the Office of the Independent Counsel delivered its 445-page report to Congress on September 9, 1998.[4]

For two days, the report sat unread in the Ford House Office Building as Democrats and Republicans in the House of Representatives debated what to do with it. On September 11, the House voted 363–63 to release the report to the public.[5]


You're crying about a two year investigation about a legitimate issue when Clinton was investigated for FOUR YEARS for screwing an intern. Meanwhile we've got Russians manipulating our elections and a president who has been more fiscally and sexually adventurous than Slick Willy ever was.

And yet you cry foul. How sad.

There's someone's forum signature which is the only one I ever have remembered, it goes like this:

"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."

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cwericb

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2019, 10:13:42 AM »
Gregmal

You say “Mueller obviously did not feel strongly enough to indict, so he passed.”

That is your interpretation. But ask yourself this. Since his boss, the Attorney General, has already stated that the President cannot be indicted why would Muller take it upon himself to indict? Why not do exactly what he did and kick the can down the road?

You speak like you have somehow read a copy of the report.

You seem to believe that it completely exonerates Trump. The only person who has made that declaration is Donald Trump himself. I suppose if you believe everything he says than you might agree with him. But most of us know what his word is worth. You also have no idea of what evidence related to other potential crimes  may have been passed on to other agencies. Do you?

As far as obstruction goes, I don’t know what your definition of obstruction would be but firing the guy that was investigating yourself would seem to be the very definition of obstruction. If that is not an attempt at obstructing the investigation I don't know what would be. How would you define obstruction?

The report was commissioned by the representatives of the US people and they should have a right to see it and make up their own minds. That way no one can cherry pick quotes - it would be there for all for all to see - unless you want to hide something.
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Gregmal

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2019, 11:20:38 AM »
Gregmal

You say “Mueller obviously did not feel strongly enough to indict, so he passed.”

That is your interpretation. But ask yourself this. Since his boss, the Attorney General, has already stated that the President cannot be indicted why would Muller take it upon himself to indict? Why not do exactly what he did and kick the can down the road?

You speak like you have somehow read a copy of the report.

You seem to believe that it completely exonerates Trump. The only person who has made that declaration is Donald Trump himself. I suppose if you believe everything he says than you might agree with him. But most of us know what his word is worth. You also have no idea of what evidence related to other potential crimes  may have been passed on to other agencies. Do you?

As far as obstruction goes, I don’t know what your definition of obstruction would be but firing the guy that was investigating yourself would seem to be the very definition of obstruction. If that is not an attempt at obstructing the investigation I don't know what would be. How would you define obstruction?

The report was commissioned by the representatives of the US people and they should have a right to see it and make up their own minds. That way no one can cherry pick quotes - it would be there for all for all to see - unless you want to hide something.

How exactly do you reconcile calling it obstruction of justice when there was no justice to be brought given the premise of the investigation was basically a hoax and a partisan witch hunt?

If one of my employees decided to spend DD time investigating something that was unclear, fine. If he continued, even though it was obvious the issue was a hoax and waste of time, I'd give a warning. If he continued to waste time and money on the issue I'd fire him...

LC

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2019, 11:46:26 AM »
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How exactly do you reconcile calling it obstruction of justice when there was no justice to be brought given the premise of the investigation was basically a hoax and a partisan witch hunt?

Why do you keep repeating this bogus point when there have been 37 indictments:

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1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, was arrested in July 2017 and pleaded guilty in October 2017 to making false statements to the FBI. He got a 14-day sentence.

2) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances. He had two trials scheduled, and the first ended in a conviction on eight counts of financial crimes. To avert the second trial, Manafort struck a plea deal with Mueller in September 2018 (though Mueller’s team said in November that he breached that agreement by lying to them). He was sentenced to a combined seven and a half years in prison.


3) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February 2018 he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

4) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December 2017 to making false statements to the FBI.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller. He was sentenced to 6 months in prison and 6 months of home detention in October 2018.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and has completed his sentence.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case last year.

24-35) 12 Russian GRU officers: These officers of Russia’s military intelligence service were charged with crimes related to the hacking and leaking of leading Democrats’ emails in 2016.

36) Michael Cohen: In August 2018, Trump’s former lawyer pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations — related to hush money payments to women who alleged affairs with Donald Trump, as part of a separate investigation in New York (that Mueller had handed off). But in November, he made a plea deal with Mueller too, for lying to Congress about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow.

37) Roger Stone: In January 2019, Mueller indicted longtime Trump adviser Roger Stone on 7 counts. He accused Stone of lying to the House Intelligence Committee about his efforts to get in touch with WikiLeaks during the campaign, and tampering with a witness who could have debunked his story.

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cwericb

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2019, 11:50:43 AM »
I think you will find that the way the law works is that it doesn’t matter if a person is innocent or guilty, the fact that they attempted to interfere or obstruct an investigation is the crime. It is sort of like if you decide to burn down your building and the fire goes out before it burns down, you are still guilty of arson.

You sound like a reasonably intelligent guy, but why do you parrot Trumps catch phrases like “hoax” and “witch hunt”. There were serious questions raised about the Trump campaign and Russia. Trump even added to the questions by his own behavior. Therefore it was in everyone’s best interest to have the matter settled. However, until the full report is released there will still be unanswered questions.

If there is nothing to hide why doesn’t Trump demand the report be released?
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Gregmal

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2019, 11:57:42 AM »
I think you will find that the way the law works is that it doesn’t matter if a person is innocent or guilty, the fact that they attempted to interfere or obstruct an investigation is the crime. It is sort of like if you decide to burn down your building and the fire goes out before it burns down, you are still guilty of arson.

You sound like a reasonably intelligent guy, but why do you parrot Trumps catch phrases like “hoax” and “witch hunt”. There were serious questions raised about the Trump campaign and Russia. Trump even added to the questions by his own behavior. Therefore it was in everyone’s best interest to have the matter settled. However, until the full report is released there will still be unanswered questions.

If there is nothing to hide why doesn’t Trump demand the report be released?

Because there really isn't even any evidence that he tried to burn the building down and it went out. The entire investigation(also called hoax/witch hunt) stemmed from a biased report, that was paid for by the Clinton camp, and put together by a foreign agent!

LC keeps going on about indictments, but again, as even federal judges have said, none of this has anything to do with Russian collusion. Zero. Its like making an investment and having your entire thesis be wrong but still making a few bucks. Yea you got lucky but the thesis was dead wrong. I'm not debating that Trump, Manafort, Stone etc aren't probably guilty of other things... What I'm saying is that this entire thing was clearly a partisan crock very early on, carried on way too long, was perpetuated by the liberal media, and as a result, finding some mouse fart of an infraction that has nothing to do with any of it, and then whining about THAT, is just grasping at straws.

Essentially the spend all this time making up all these obvious infractions and crimes that they claimed they KNEW Trump committed. And ultimately found NONE. And now all that's left is to harp on borderline "obstruction"... come on...

I mean when Pelosi, AOC, and friends are now pivoting from impeachment, it's not because they had a change of heart; its because they know there is no longer any case, even in the slightest bit. There just have to put a spin on it. Its like when the fraudsters in a pump and dump unload their stock. It's over. Yet there are still always bag holders who are behind the 8 ball and slow to react, like LC, and thats why there's still a story to some folks.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 12:02:58 PM by Gregmal »