Author Topic: Result of Mueller Investigation  (Read 10021 times)

SafetyinNumbers

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2019, 12:31:30 PM »
I think you will find that the way the law works is that it doesn’t matter if a person is innocent or guilty, the fact that they attempted to interfere or obstruct an investigation is the crime. It is sort of like if you decide to burn down your building and the fire goes out before it burns down, you are still guilty of arson.

You sound like a reasonably intelligent guy, but why do you parrot Trumps catch phrases like “hoax” and “witch hunt”. There were serious questions raised about the Trump campaign and Russia. Trump even added to the questions by his own behavior. Therefore it was in everyone’s best interest to have the matter settled. However, until the full report is released there will still be unanswered questions.

If there is nothing to hide why doesn’t Trump demand the report be released?

Because there really isn't even any evidence that he tried to burn the building down and it went out. The entire investigation(also called hoax/witch hunt) stemmed from a biased report, that was paid for by the Clinton camp, and put together by a foreign agent!

LC keeps going on about indictments, but again, as even federal judges have said, none of this has anything to do with Russian collusion. Zero. Its like making an investment and having your entire thesis be wrong but still making a few bucks. Yea you got lucky but the thesis was dead wrong. I'm not debating that Trump, Manafort, Stone etc aren't probably guilty of other things... What I'm saying is that this entire thing was clearly a partisan crock very early on, carried on way too long, was perpetuated by the liberal media, and as a result, finding some mouse fart of an infraction that has nothing to do with any of it, and then whining about THAT, is just grasping at straws.

Essentially the spend all this time making up all these obvious infractions and crimes that they claimed they KNEW Trump committed. And ultimately found NONE. And now all that's left is to harp on borderline "obstruction"... come on...

I mean when Pelosi, AOC, and friends are now pivoting from impeachment, it's not because they had a change of heart; its because they know there is no longer any case, even in the slightest bit. There just have to put a spin on it. Its like when the fraudsters in a pump and dump unload their stock. It's over. Yet there are still always bag holders who are behind the 8 ball and slow to react, like LC, and thats why there's still a story to some folks.

Why did they lie about it? Why did they keep talking and sharing information with Russians after they were asked about it? Why do they keep lying now about the content of the report?

I think a lot of us can see that, the President, based on the content of his character is dangerous. All of the lying supports that claim.
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cwericb

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2019, 02:41:57 PM »
"I think a lot of us can see that, the President, based on the content of his character is dangerous."

And that, is the bottom line. 
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

cubsfan

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2019, 03:20:26 PM »
Trump did not interfere with the Mueller investigation, that was under an independent counsel under the DOJ.
Comey worked for the FBI - the DOJ, under Rod Rosenstein recommended that Comey be fired because Comey had damaged
the reputation and credibility of the FBI - and that Comey had totally faked the Hillary Clinton email investigation.
Rosenstein then recommended to Trump - and Trump used his constitutional authority to remove a corrupt FBI director.

There is no obstruction of Justice - since the Mueller probe was unaffected - and Trump was acting with the
Presidential powers given to him under the constitution.

James Comey said himself "I serve at the pleasure of the President" - everyone in Washington knows this.
The FBI director lost the confidence of the President and was replaced. Ask any constitutional lawyer - it's real simple.

But - Comey is a criminal, and has not yet been indicted. We will see what happens. He illegally leaked FBI information to the press
and admitted this under oath. He then lied to Congress multiple times.

There is no defensible position for Comey.


cwericb

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2019, 04:26:50 PM »
Donald Trump stated in his own words in the Lester Holt interview, that he fired Comey because of "the Russia thing".

You can't change the facts to suit what you would like them to be.

It doesn't matter how you try to obscure it - that is what he said. 

So:
1) You are being investigated for a potential crime
2) Then you fire the guy that is investigating you.
3) Then you go on national TV and admit that you did it because he was investigating you.
4) That is an attempt to obstruct the investigation.
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

cubsfan

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2019, 04:38:26 PM »
Donald Trump stated in his own words in the Lester Holt interview, that he fired Comey because of "the Russia thing".

You can't change the facts to suit what you would like them to be.

It doesn't matter how you try to obscure it - that is what he said. 

So:
1) You are being investigated for a potential crime
2) Then you fire the guy that is investigating you.
3) Then you go on national TV and admit that you did it because he was investigating you.
4) That is an attempt to obstruct the investigation.

You have it totally wrong. The Special Counsel was conducting an investigation of the 2016 Election
to uncover candidate Trump's collusion with Russia to influence the election. This was under the DOJ.
James Comey was not part of the investigation. James Comey was the FBI Director and lost the
confidence of the DOJ and US President. The President had the constitutional authority to fire Comey
for any reason. The DOJ told Trump, in writing,  to fire Comey. Don't try and change the facts.

You have your facts all wrong - and you don't get to change them to suit your narrative.

The Special Counsel's investigation was not obstructed as Mueller told you.

James Comey told you in his own words "I serve at the pleasure of the President".

He is a criminal trying to control the narrative so he is not indicted for lying to Congress multiple times.

Parsad

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2019, 05:32:11 PM »
“Trump has never been indicted, charged, whatever, by anyone other than the fools on the left who hate him...”

Aren’t you just cherry picking the facts or just ignoring them?

Of course he hasn’t been indicted or charged. Barr does not believe that a sitting president can be indicted or charged. If that is your argument, you have to admit it is pretty weak.


“The public doesn't deserve anything.”
 

And that attitude is the problem. Do you seriously believe that? Isn’t that what any dictator would believe? What ever happened to democracy?

First, Mueller obviously did not feel strongly enough to indict, so he passed. Second, I agree totally with the argument they made. Trump didn't collude with Russia. He didn't do anything he believed was wrong. So all these bums want to keep interfering with him? Harassing him for info that stems solely from an attack derived from Hillary Clinton and the establishment? Of course I wouldn't cooperate or make their lives easy either. But now, those type of actions are what YOU GUYS want to base an obstruction charge on? Despite the entire basis of the investigation exonerating him and proving he was right from the beginning? Please. Come on...

As I said, the American public doesnt deserve anything if releasing the report is just going to be an excuse for people who have 100% already made up their minds to just keep pushing a narrative the has already been declared false. In addition to these, there are disclosure standards and precedent in terms of releasing items like this. For instance, subpoena material is almost always redacted. Yet here, you have a bunch of losers like Nadler and Schiff, already painting the picture that if anything is redacted(whether supported by precedent) that it is some grand scheme and cover up and THAT is treasonous and undermining the president and frankly the entire system.

I am hardly a fan of "the system", but what these guys are doing, purely with partisan motives, is absurd.

I agree with you on both points and that it is a partisan motive. 

Now where was this disgust, outrage and indignation when everyone including Trump was going after Obama's birth certificate?  Why the continued attacks on Obama today, when Clinton was the one who set the Democratic dogs on attack regarding collusion? 

Partisan motives indeed!  Trump still can't let go of his Obama chew toy...look how he keeps bashing Obamacare, even though the majority of Americans prefer Obamacare to what Trump is offering.  Cheers!
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Gregmal

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2019, 05:55:03 PM »
“Trump has never been indicted, charged, whatever, by anyone other than the fools on the left who hate him...”

Aren’t you just cherry picking the facts or just ignoring them?

Of course he hasn’t been indicted or charged. Barr does not believe that a sitting president can be indicted or charged. If that is your argument, you have to admit it is pretty weak.


“The public doesn't deserve anything.”
 

And that attitude is the problem. Do you seriously believe that? Isn’t that what any dictator would believe? What ever happened to democracy?

First, Mueller obviously did not feel strongly enough to indict, so he passed. Second, I agree totally with the argument they made. Trump didn't collude with Russia. He didn't do anything he believed was wrong. So all these bums want to keep interfering with him? Harassing him for info that stems solely from an attack derived from Hillary Clinton and the establishment? Of course I wouldn't cooperate or make their lives easy either. But now, those type of actions are what YOU GUYS want to base an obstruction charge on? Despite the entire basis of the investigation exonerating him and proving he was right from the beginning? Please. Come on...

As I said, the American public doesnt deserve anything if releasing the report is just going to be an excuse for people who have 100% already made up their minds to just keep pushing a narrative the has already been declared false. In addition to these, there are disclosure standards and precedent in terms of releasing items like this. For instance, subpoena material is almost always redacted. Yet here, you have a bunch of losers like Nadler and Schiff, already painting the picture that if anything is redacted(whether supported by precedent) that it is some grand scheme and cover up and THAT is treasonous and undermining the president and frankly the entire system.

I am hardly a fan of "the system", but what these guys are doing, purely with partisan motives, is absurd.

I agree with you on both points and that it is a partisan motive. 

Now where was this disgust, outrage and indignation when everyone including Trump was going after Obama's birth certificate?  Why the continued attacks on Obama today, when Clinton was the one who set the Democratic dogs on attack regarding collusion? 

Partisan motives indeed!  Trump still can't let go of his Obama chew toy...look how he keeps bashing Obamacare, even though the majority of Americans prefer Obamacare to what Trump is offering.  Cheers!

To be honest with you, when Trump and friends pulled the birther thing, there was no outrage because it was so outrageous I thought he was just being a clown and seeking attention. It didn't end up getting the FBI/DOJ involved...

Parsad

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2019, 06:22:29 PM »
“Trump has never been indicted, charged, whatever, by anyone other than the fools on the left who hate him...”

Aren’t you just cherry picking the facts or just ignoring them?

Of course he hasn’t been indicted or charged. Barr does not believe that a sitting president can be indicted or charged. If that is your argument, you have to admit it is pretty weak.


“The public doesn't deserve anything.”
 

And that attitude is the problem. Do you seriously believe that? Isn’t that what any dictator would believe? What ever happened to democracy?

First, Mueller obviously did not feel strongly enough to indict, so he passed. Second, I agree totally with the argument they made. Trump didn't collude with Russia. He didn't do anything he believed was wrong. So all these bums want to keep interfering with him? Harassing him for info that stems solely from an attack derived from Hillary Clinton and the establishment? Of course I wouldn't cooperate or make their lives easy either. But now, those type of actions are what YOU GUYS want to base an obstruction charge on? Despite the entire basis of the investigation exonerating him and proving he was right from the beginning? Please. Come on...

As I said, the American public doesnt deserve anything if releasing the report is just going to be an excuse for people who have 100% already made up their minds to just keep pushing a narrative the has already been declared false. In addition to these, there are disclosure standards and precedent in terms of releasing items like this. For instance, subpoena material is almost always redacted. Yet here, you have a bunch of losers like Nadler and Schiff, already painting the picture that if anything is redacted(whether supported by precedent) that it is some grand scheme and cover up and THAT is treasonous and undermining the president and frankly the entire system.

I am hardly a fan of "the system", but what these guys are doing, purely with partisan motives, is absurd.

I agree with you on both points and that it is a partisan motive. 

Now where was this disgust, outrage and indignation when everyone including Trump was going after Obama's birth certificate?  Why the continued attacks on Obama today, when Clinton was the one who set the Democratic dogs on attack regarding collusion? 

Partisan motives indeed!  Trump still can't let go of his Obama chew toy...look how he keeps bashing Obamacare, even though the majority of Americans prefer Obamacare to what Trump is offering.  Cheers!

To be honest with you, when Trump and friends pulled the birther thing, there was no outrage because it was so outrageous I thought he was just being a clown and seeking attention. It didn't end up getting the FBI/DOJ involved...

Nope, but they tried as hard as they could:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/22/politics/kfile-roy-moore-birther-comments/index.html

In Trump's case, the original collusion accusations against him and his family may have proven to be false, or not enough evidence.  But that doesn't negate the 35+ people who were charged, including the Russian troll farm, 12 Russian military intelligence officers, Manafort, Konstantin Kilimnik, Roger Stone, Flynn, Gates, Cohen, Papadopolous, Alex van der Zwan, Richard Pinedo, Sam Patten, Bijan Kian, Skim Alptekin and three others referred to NY prosecutors.

Your man may look clean, but he sure had some really dirty hands around him!  It's not even comparable to the whole birther thing.  Cheers! 
No man is a failure who has friends!

Gregmal

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2019, 07:10:48 PM »
I agree. The birther thing and what Trump just went thru have NOTHING in common. Obama had a fringe conspiracy to deal with. Trump had 75% of the government, and 95% of the media constantly at his throat.

On the second part of your comment, I disagree. Trump does not look clean, nor is he clean. I have never said otherwise. I believe he got his hands dirty to get wealthy(ier) like many others before and after him have. But that is not the argument, nor is it really relevant, given precedent. You think 99% of finance guys are clean? Scoundrels who may not have broken laws but played people disingenuously, fucked over counter parties, pumped then dumped, or anything else?

90% of the issues people have with Trump, stem from him being president. Donald Trump is no different a person today than he was 30 years ago when most people liked him or were indifferent. He just decided to get into politics... It is my belief that if you didn't have an issue with him prior, you should now.


cameronfen

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Re: Result of Mueller Investigation
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2019, 09:16:19 PM »
I agree. The birther thing and what Trump just went thru have NOTHING in common. Obama had a fringe conspiracy to deal with. Trump had 75% of the government, and 95% of the media constantly at his throat.

On the second part of your comment, I disagree. Trump does not look clean, nor is he clean. I have never said otherwise. I believe he got his hands dirty to get wealthy(ier) like many others before and after him have. But that is not the argument, nor is it really relevant, given precedent. You think 99% of finance guys are clean? Scoundrels who may not have broken laws but played people disingenuously, fucked over counter parties, pumped then dumped, or anything else?

90% of the issues people have with Trump, stem from him being president. Donald Trump is no different a person today than he was 30 years ago when most people liked him or were indifferent. He just decided to get into politics... It is my belief that if you didn't have an issue with him prior, you should now.

You were the last comment so you get my responses :).  I kind of regret starting this thread now, I'm trying to focus on investing and not Trump. 

1.  I think the reason 90% of the government and media is at his throat is because it is obvious that Trump is literally not morally nor intellectually capable of being the president.  You may disagree with Obama, but at least you know he still has all his marbles. 

2. I think people clearly take issue with his problems because hes president, but that's what you sign up for when you are leader of the free world.  Hilary had Bengazi, Obama had birthers, Bush had Blackwater and Valarie Plane, I mean for goodness sake Elizabeth Warren got in trouble for saying she was Native American when she was (admittedly less than 1%) Native American... We should hold our president to a higher standard and they should be investigated when they do something that appears wrong.  They should be able to be impeached (note I didnt say thrown in jail) even if the crime is not something the average financier will get charged with and right now that's is the treatment hes basically getting.  I'm not advocating throwing him in jail, but if you did some shady stuff that's kind of corrupt maybe you shouldn't be president.  You can decry the witch hunt, but no one in power is seriously talking about throwing him in jail, maybe the lefties will pander to the base, but the dems only objective is the get the presidency back (ie in the same way as the "lock her up" chants). No one will care to press charges once he's out of office.