Author Topic: Seasteading  (Read 1682 times)

rukawa

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Re: Seasteading
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 05:58:02 AM »
Its cle
Always thought this was a really fascinating idea. Saw a bit about it in a piece on Peter Thiel and conceptually I like it a lot.

I've always loved the idea as well.  The idea itself has been around for decades in one form or another (I remember "Freedom Ship" in the mid 1990s) and it looks like support for it and the technology to enable it may catch up to make this possible in the relatively near future.

I think the whole idea of the nation state is on its way out.  Decentralization, and freedom of movement is the future.   The first signs of this will be the re-emergence of the independent city-state in a big way.

Return of the city-state - Nation-states came late to history, and there’s plenty of evidence to suggest they won't make it to the end of the century


Its unclear to me why you would think any of this. I know you want it to be true but I don't think it is actually true. For the nation state to end you would need it to be weakened in some way...uneconomic, unable to deal with emerging competitors. The nation state system is in a very healthy condition. There are relatively few wars, borders are more less fixed, governments seem fairly stable and considered legitimate by their populations etc. I think right on the nation state is at the peak of its powers without anything to challenge it.

I would argue the exact opposite of what you wrote. I would say the city has been enormously weakened compared to the past. In the past cities where powerful because they were at trade hubs and these hubs almost always coincided with rivers or ocean access. Basically people used water ways to cheaply transport goods long distances. And cities where hubs for doing that.

But with the advent of the car, highways and the internet you don't really need cities anymore. THink Silicon Valley. Its a desert. There are no trade caravans through Silicon Valley. So why is it economically important? Its not close to any rivers. What the hell is going on there?

Las Vegas is another example of the same phenemonon. I submit that Silicon Valley would have been impossible without highways and cars.

What you really need to make capitalism work is a large market with roughly uniform rules/laws and great infrastructure for moving people, information and stuff. This implies some governance structure at a high level to make the rules uniform and to provide the infrastructure...a.k.a the Nation State. Nation states provide the structure needed for modern capitalism to flourish and capitalism provides the money to fund the nation state. The two go hand in hand.

Imagine that you were developing a startup. And you were doing a pitch. In a nation state system, a venture capitalist might ask "Do you have a patent"? How will you deal with regulation X. Or Law Y". But its not that bad because most laws are uniform across the country (California is the evil exception).

However in the world of city-states the whole thing would be a much longer conversation. You would have to figure out how to deal with the different laws and regs of each city-state. It would be a fucking nightmare. You would never be able to scale anything. Of course you could just ignore the law like Uber...but that only works for purely digital solutions...anyone operating with actual physical stuff (e.g. Amazon) won't have this luxury.


Aberhound

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Re: Seasteading
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2017, 08:26:16 PM »
Almost everyone other than US citizens are free to leave and there is no requirement to become a tax resident in any high tax country. So you get the benefit of not paying tax but we still suffer the harm caused by the manipulators. Catherine Austin Fitts estimated the GDP would be 50x greater if the government simply stopped the stupid. Imagine a world where government acted to ensure that you simply had good food and good water and did not suppress technology and actually taught at the forefront of science instead of continuing to teach the mistakes of past generations.

We should look into the techniques used by the manipulators. For instance if everyone stopped using alcohol they would likely discover that their minds and power of intuition and spiritual energy slowly becomes far more powerful. After all we are the gods described in the myths. How we have been degraded.

We can also change are worldviews or at least stop adopting the worldview of the manipulators. The untouchables in India for instance are imprisoned by their worldview that their position is justified by the bad karma arising from current or past lives. We are equally imprisoned by countless worldviews which we have accepted and rarely questioned. Question everything as you will not escape the prison until you understand the construction and know yourself and try to develop an open mind and be humble as few can accept that they were wrong. You have to see the manipulation and understand why it works on you to stop it. Often you will find that your various worldviews were logically inconsistent and your brain power will increase once your unconscious doesn't have to waste so much energy trying to convince yourself that you are correct. It is the same as lying to yourself. Once you eliminate the many lies you tell yourself your brain power increases and you forget less as the brain no longer has to edit so many memories to keep the false illusion that you are correct and did not lie.

My estimate is that if we increase the number of such people to 20% of the population no one will need to Seastead.

rkbabang

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Re: Seasteading
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 08:40:47 AM »

Gregmal

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Re: Seasteading
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 08:45:32 AM »
From The NY Times
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/business/dealbook/seasteading-floating-cities.html

Pretty cool. Can't help but think if successful that these won't simply be utopian vacation communities for the ultra wealthy.

Will be interesting nonetheless. A controversial project being funded through another new and controversial method(ICO).

rkbabang

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Re: Seasteading
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 08:54:49 AM »
From The NY Times
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/business/dealbook/seasteading-floating-cities.html

Pretty cool. Can't help but think if successful that these won't simply be utopian vacation communities for the ultra wealthy.

Will be interesting nonetheless. A controversial project being funded through another new and controversial method(ICO).

They will almost certainly be at first.  The hope is, like any technology, innovation will happen and costs will come down.  If they ever become fully functioning cities with tourism industries, bakeries, restaurants, and butcher shops, you need average people there too.  The wealthy aren't going to wait tables, tend bar, or clean hotel rooms.  The hope is that overly regulated industries move to these locations i.e. biotech, medical research, medical procedures, maybe even finance, etc...  You will need a lot of average joes.  So while at first it might be vacation homes for the super wealthy, unless the price comes way down from there it will never be real cities on the sea, which is the goal.