Author Topic: The Obamas  (Read 2723 times)

Gregmal

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The Obamas
« on: November 10, 2018, 04:49:24 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michelle-obama-says-she-barack-161343521.html

I'm sure you thought you knew what this thread was going to be about by the title and the poster. But no....

What struck me reading this was two things.

Politics aside, I think the Obamas are to be admired for their family values and openness about their relation.

The second thing is, you see how people work at their relationships. The Obamas probably had it harder than 99% of people in the world and yet have proven through dedication and a little effort, to make their relationship work. So WTF is wrong with the country that divorce rates keep skyrocketing and people can't seem to get it together?

One of the most common causes I see with investors when it comes to the cause of financial hardships is getting through a mid life divorce. It's worse than seeing your portfolio take a 50% draw down because it's never coming back. This also typically has hugely negative effects on the children that they then carry and are influenced by.

I do think divorce is a major social problem. It's just less obvious and seems to plague people of all backgrounds and political affiliations.


TwoCitiesCapital

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 05:07:26 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michelle-obama-says-she-barack-161343521.html

I'm sure you thought you knew what this thread was going to be about by the title and the poster. But no....

What struck me reading this was two things.

Politics aside, I think the Obamas are to be admired for their family values and openness about their relation.

The second thing is, you see how people work at their relationships. The Obamas probably had it harder than 99% of people in the world and yet have proven through dedication and a little effort, to make their relationship work. So WTF is wrong with the country that divorce rates keep skyrocketing and people can't seem to get it together?

One of the most common causes I see with investors when it comes to the cause of financial hardships is getting through a mid life divorce. It's worse than seeing your portfolio take a 50% draw down because it's never coming back. This also typically has hugely negative effects on the children that they then carry and are influenced by.

I do think divorce is a major social problem. It's just less obvious and seems to plague people of all backgrounds and political affiliations.

Actually, from what I heard, along with brick-and-mortar stores, millennials have killed the divorce industry. Don't have the stats on hands, but the divorce rate is largely a product of boomers while other generations have done a better job toughing it out.

Gregmal

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 05:43:38 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michelle-obama-says-she-barack-161343521.html

I'm sure you thought you knew what this thread was going to be about by the title and the poster. But no....

What struck me reading this was two things.

Politics aside, I think the Obamas are to be admired for their family values and openness about their relation.

The second thing is, you see how people work at their relationships. The Obamas probably had it harder than 99% of people in the world and yet have proven through dedication and a little effort, to make their relationship work. So WTF is wrong with the country that divorce rates keep skyrocketing and people can't seem to get it together?

One of the most common causes I see with investors when it comes to the cause of financial hardships is getting through a mid life divorce. It's worse than seeing your portfolio take a 50% draw down because it's never coming back. This also typically has hugely negative effects on the children that they then carry and are influenced by.

I do think divorce is a major social problem. It's just less obvious and seems to plague people of all backgrounds and political affiliations.

Actually, from what I heard, along with brick-and-mortar stores, millennials have killed the divorce industry. Don't have the stats on hands, but the divorce rate is largely a product of boomers while other generations have done a better job toughing it out.

Yes, I think you may be right, although I've seen stuff on both sides. General stuff I've seen says last decade or two there's been a decline. I guess a better way of putting things is that divorce rates, on an absolute basis are IMO really high. 50%+ is incredible to me.

Divorce has to be incredibly traumatic and unpleasant. If it isn't then I guess you could argue something is really, really, wrong. Lives get turned upside down, people's financials get ruined, children have their entire world turned upside down. Why are rates so high is a question I think is worth exploring.

DooDiligence

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 06:19:23 PM »
Once upon a time a man asked a woman to marry him.
She said no and they both lived happily ever after.

---

I believe that we, as animals, have not caught up with the society we've created.

When we started saying, "this is mine", there arose disputes and the need
for property laws which included marriage.

Before this happened, we all lived together and everyone raised the
kids so it didn't matter much if 2 people decided to split up.

The kids still got raised & since everything belonged to everyone,
there wasn't anything to settle except possibly hurt feelings.

Many of us choose our mates for all the wrong reasons &
it's really difficult to deal with the aftermath.

Heinlein wrote about term limited marriage contracts
in one of his books but I can't remember which
one. I thought it was a great idea
but WTFDIK?

Too many hormones.
Too much freedom?
Too many choices?

Maybe people should have to get approval
before being allowed to touch each other?
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Cigarbutt

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 06:05:19 AM »
^Just want to provide some data, which obviously does not translate the human aspect of this.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/23/144-years-of-marriage-and-divorce-in-the-united-states-in-one-chart/?utm_term=.4a208c9d1f58

For international followers, it seems that the graph lines in many countries show a similar pattern, although both lines tend to be somewhat higher in the US.
Sociology "experts" have provided some explanations for that but I'll stay away from controversies and stick with numbers.

-Divorce rates in the early part of the 20th century were low but an argument could be made that there were several functionless marriages then.
-Wars and the Depression are associated with noise but do not really change the underlying trends.
-Since the 1970's, the proportion between divorces and marriages has remained remarkably constant.
-Some people suggest (I guess Heinlein would be one of them) that what is surprising is the amazingly high proportion of people who can stay together for such a long time.

@DooDiligence
I don't really understand your post but the construction of the text (2 lines, getting shorter) has a musicality to it. :)
The book you're looking for (with the quote p.137):
http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Robert-A.-Heinlein-Time-enough-for-love_-the-lives-of-Lazarus-Long.pdf
I assume the copyright has expired.
In the book, the author also says:
"Always listen to experts. They’ll tell you what can’t be done, and why. Then do it."

globalfinancepartners

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2018, 06:23:16 AM »
Thank you for pointing out the subliminal shapes in DooDiligence's post.  I have consulted the Q.Anon followers, who have informed me that it is an obvious reference to the shape of Minnesota.  What is Doo trying to tell us about Minnesota?  Is Minnesota a breadcrumb leading us towards the light?

DooDiligence

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2018, 08:51:59 AM »
Thank you for pointing out the subliminal shapes in DooDiligence's post.  I have consulted the Q.Anon followers, who have informed me that it is an obvious reference to the shape of Minnesota.  What is Doo trying to tell us about Minnesota?  Is Minnesota a breadcrumb leading us towards the light?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm glad I wasn't eating anything when I read that or it probably would've come out my nose.
"One time, Michael Davey passed an entire cheese sandwich through his nose" (George Carlin).

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I'll solve the riddle:

What do Minnesota Vikings fans do after they win the Super Bowl?

They shut off the X-Box & go to bed.
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Jurgis

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2018, 09:02:40 AM »
Names changed to protect the privacy of the innocent.

A friend has married a divorced lady and they have a great marriage for over ...teen years and counting.

Her first marriage was a horrible disaster.

Should she toughed it out in totally dysfunctional situation? And missed out on her happiness and the happiness of someone who married her and is happy with her?

Yes, there's also children factor, where the outcome is not so clear-cut. There's no A-B testing of what would have happened to children if she did not divorce/etc.

It's a tough topic.

Heinlein was all for open free sex and multi relationships in his books. But he himself had a great marriage and I'm not sure he ever went open/free (I haven't seen any stories, but I did not search for it strongly either).

And I think open free and multi relationships would work better if humans were descended from bonobos. But we are not.

Overall human primate genes/tendencies are still way too dominant in human society. Which may lead to disaster now that humans wield nuclear/bacterial sticks. But that's another topic, so.
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cherzeca

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 09:43:03 AM »
as to millennials I have read that they are delaying marriage and having less children than parents' cohort...which may lead to a reduced divorce rate

SharperDingaan

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Re: The Obamas
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 10:18:27 AM »
'They' are just being more business like about it; they've also seen their parents divorce, seen the cost and angst it causes, and aren't about to repeat the same mistakes. We would also suggest that it wil be even more the case for Gen-Z (born>1995), who also saw what over-leverage did to their parents. Good on both of them.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-25/millennials-are-causing-the-u-s-divorce-rate-to-plummet

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