Author Topic: The President, bribery, and Ukraine  (Read 9853 times)

Schwab711

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The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« on: September 20, 2019, 05:48:45 AM »
More of a placeholder thread until we know more, but it looks like Trump and multiple representatives of Trump's White House approached the Ukrainian President with a proposal where Ukraine restarts the investigation in to Joe Biden, his son, and various associates of them in exchange for foreign aide ($250m related to Crimea - it's been approved, it needs to be released/spent).

Joe Biden's alleged misdealings:
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/joe-biden-ukraine-controversy.html - High-level primer
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html - More in-depth issues surrounding Biden

Trump's alleged quid pro quo:
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-impeachment-ukraine-whistleblower-intelligence-giuliani-zelensky-1460327
https://theweek.com/articles/866525/brief-timeline-trump-whistleblower-saga

*Within these links are further links for both ends of the issue



Timeline of Events:
May 10: Rudy Giuliani, Trump's lawyer, calls off a trip to Ukraine one day after saying he would be "meddling in an investigation" and giving Ukraine's new government "reasons why they shouldn't stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client." He lobbies Ukraine via back-channels over the summer.

July 25: Trump and Zelensky talk on the phone, and Trump, according to Ukraine's readout of the call, signaled Ukraine should "complete investigation of corruption cases, which inhibited the interaction between Ukraine and the USA."
Reported Aug. 9:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/dan-coats-disrupted-meeting-to-urge-sue-gordon-to-resign-report

Aug. 28: Politico reports that Trump has frozen $250 million in Ukraine security aid and Congress doesn't know why.

Sept. 1: Vice President Mike Pence meets with Zelensky in Poland. He's asked about Biden and the frozen funds the next day.

Sept. 10: Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) writes Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire to ask about the whistleblower complaint.

Sept. 11: The White House releases military aid to Ukraine with no explanation.

Sept. 19: Ukraine is reported to be a focus of the whistleblower's complaint. Giuliani goes on CNN and says he pressed Ukraine's government to investigate Biden. Then he suggests on Twitter that Trump should push Ukraine to investigate Biden. (https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/462277-giuliani-says-of-course-he-asked-ukraine-to-look-into-biden-seconds)


An Old Review on Bribery/Impeachment, re:Constitution:
https://www.justsecurity.org/41124/impeachment-clause-types-bribery/


Schwab711

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2019, 04:44:38 AM »
If no one knows the whistleblowers identity, how could they possibly knows they are partisan? Why do GOP leaders ignore that a Trump appointee agreed it was serious? Why did GOP leaders lie saying the whistleblower could tell Congress?

Why can't we hear the whistleblower and decide the seriousness ourselves?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-parrot-trump-in-calling-whistleblower-highly-partisan

Gregmal

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2019, 08:24:18 AM »
I can't help but marvel at the irony of this and wonder if it is all just one big joke the puppet masters are playing on us normal folks...The idea that the left is outraged and calling for impeachment over a....politically motivated investigation? Obama's administration launched an investigation into Trump/Russia and now Trump is trying to do the same with Biden/Ukraine...and the reactions to both were sooooooo different it's startling. Honestly the only difference is Obama wasting the time and resources of OUR agencies, whereas at least Trump is getting someone else to do it.

Schwab711

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2019, 09:20:48 AM »
It sucks that you have become so cynical that you can't see that presidential bribery is a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States#Constitutional_provisions

LC

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2019, 10:48:55 AM »
Quote
Why can't we hear the whistleblower and decide the seriousness ourselves?
This is one of my problems with this current administration - why do they refuse to share information with Congress? Why do they refuse to comply with subpoenas? If "obstruction of justice" has a meaning, this has got to be it.
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Gregmal

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2019, 12:00:52 PM »
They treat worthless partisan pieces of shit like the worthless partisan pieces of shit that they are. I love it, but if the shoe was on the other foot I probably wouldnít be happy either. What do you think republicans felt like during Obama term 1?

Schwab711

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2019, 01:15:56 PM »
Trump appointed the Inspector General that says it is serious. Neither Trump nor the GOP ever complained about the guy before this specific complaint. Weird how they always become partisan/Deep State when they aren't blindly supporting Dear Leader. Trump's DOJ is reportedly already investigating Giuliani on the broader topic of his trips to Ukraine. Trump and his personal lawyer both said if they did what was alleged in the complaint, it would be fine. Giuliani already said he spoke to the Ukrainian president about "corruption" and US aide.

Everyone supporting Trump keeps repeating the phrase 'partisan' without merit. It sounds like a cult, tbh. All that's left to determine is what specifically did Trump say on the call. There are transcripts. That's what he's ultimately trying to block. It's likely he said what was alleged because Trump already said it would be fine if he did say what was alleged.

Quote
I love it, but if the shoe was on the other foot I probably wouldnít be happy either.

What's the point of complaining about politics if you happily admit to being the problem? You're better than this.

Gregmal

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2019, 02:55:32 PM »
Schwabster, itís simple. Neither you nor I have any control over any of this shitshow, so when your team in winning, enjoy it, and when theyíre not, realize the game is rigged anyway. Donít take shit so seriously...

LC

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2019, 05:28:22 PM »
Thereís the Greg we know and love :)
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Spekulatius

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2019, 08:37:15 PM »
Itís banana republic politics plain and simple. I have the sneaking suspicion that Trump doesnít even know he breaks laws, he probably had lawyers cleaning up his mess all his live and thinks the laws are for those who donít have good lawyers. I donít think he is alone with this attitude either.
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