Author Topic: The President, bribery, and Ukraine  (Read 9882 times)

Read the Footnotes

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #190 on: October 12, 2019, 09:38:27 AM »
George Conway was a Republican on the short list for Solicitor General and Assistant Attorney General in the Trump administration.

George Conway from the Atlantic on October 3:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/george-conway-trump-unfit-office/599128/

I like the fact that George Conway takes several established frameworks and goes through the analysis very methodically. It is nice to see a well structured logical argument that is free of name calling and profanity.

Plus the article includes many links to primary source materials that he references. It's a real walk down memory lane.


Gregmal

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #191 on: October 12, 2019, 06:26:08 PM »

Is it me or did Fox News start to slowly turn against Trump?

https://twitter.com/BretBaier/status/1182054428314132481

"Tonight on #SpecialReport-- new
@foxnewspoll
 on #impeachment shows 51% of those polled favor impeachment and removal from office. #FoxNews"


Another step forward.  They could have easily fixed the number in his favor as they have done before.

Whoops!

https://nypost.com/2019/10/12/fox-news-pollster-braun-research-misrepresented-impeachment-poll-analysis/

Like I said, regardless of where you stand, you really can't trust any of these clowns anymore. Eventually this will cause a major problem(if it hasn't already) in the US for all people. People just don't know what's real anymore and the media(plus politicians) are clearly at fault.

cwericb

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #192 on: October 13, 2019, 06:28:12 AM »

I agree 100%.

It is getting very concerning. It is becoming even more serious when you look at the ‘advances’ in manipulating video so that now you can make someone appear to be saying something they have not said.

For years we have relied on the press to expose corruption and misdeeds. Left, right or whatever, society should be very concerned about where this is going to lead.

 
Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason. - Mark Twain

Read the Footnotes

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #193 on: October 13, 2019, 07:01:30 AM »

Is it me or did Fox News start to slowly turn against Trump?

https://twitter.com/BretBaier/status/1182054428314132481

"Tonight on #SpecialReport-- new
@foxnewspoll
 on #impeachment shows 51% of those polled favor impeachment and removal from office. #FoxNews"


Another step forward.  They could have easily fixed the number in his favor as they have done before.

Whoops!

https://nypost.com/2019/10/12/fox-news-pollster-braun-research-misrepresented-impeachment-poll-analysis/

Like I said, regardless of where you stand, you really can't trust any of these clowns anymore. Eventually this will cause a major problem(if it hasn't already) in the US for all people. People just don't know what's real anymore and the media(plus politicians) are clearly at fault.

I would no more quote the NYPost than I would the National Enquirer. In terms of survey methodology, the NYPost methodology seems more suspect than the original Fox poll. The NY Post methodology seems to assume that the percentage of Democrats, Independents, and Republicans is a known number or at least that Gallup Polling is better, whereas in fact we have to estimate that through polls. If the poll was well conducted, it could be a sign that people are switching their party affiliation or even that Gallup is a misestimation.

At best the criticism is that the Fox News poll would be more accurate if combined with the results from other polls. That might be a good exercise, but it is also not the same methodology and should be clearly differentiated.

If you want aggregated the results from multiple polls because you believe that can get you a better estimate, then I would suggest fivethirtyeight.com. 538's aggregated number is that 49.3% support impeachment. Not that different from Fox's 51% estimate and likely well within the margin of error. A word of caution though, 538's aggregated number includes many older polls and therefore likely underestimates the rapid rise in support for impeachment.

Edit: Here's a link to the 538 impeachment watch:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-americans-support-impeaching-president-trump/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Note that they are only displaying data since the Ukraine scandal because support for impeachment jumped much higher after the scandal broke.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:05:37 AM by Read the Footnotes »

Cardboard

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #194 on: October 13, 2019, 08:43:08 AM »
"I would no more quote the NYPost than I would the National Enquirer. In terms of survey methodology, the NYPost methodology seems more suspect than the original Fox poll."

I see a trend by Read the Footnotes or dismiss anything that does not fit his narrative. Don't even quote it!

Same mistake was made during the last election as Trump could not possibly win according to more "respected" polls. See how that turned out?

Gregmal

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #195 on: October 13, 2019, 09:10:36 AM »
I am aware of The Post's shortcomings. However I do have a line with what I'll spend time with, and The Post does, at least if you go online, have an adequate sampling of the relevant ongoings of the world in a wide variety of topics, which I like. Its also got great sports coverage. Yahoo News isn't terrible either as it grabs stuff from everywhere. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, I check regularly, but just cant spend much time there as its skewed intentionally to be manipulative rather than just let one know what is happening in the world. And again, I'm not just referring to politics.

RuleNumberOne

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #196 on: October 13, 2019, 09:11:14 AM »
The NYPost with its coverage of Hunter Biden's corruption, has acquired more credibility than the NYT.

The NYT is populated by writers who spread the dishonest data put out by Lying Liz. Lying Liz who hired dishonest researchers to prepare the crooked data.

Read the Footnotes has such a giant appetite for writing, he should look into starting his own far-left newspaper and putting the NYT out of business.

Read the Footnotes

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #197 on: October 13, 2019, 09:41:57 AM »
I am aware of The Post's shortcomings. However I do have a line with what I'll spend time with, and The Post does, at least if you go online, have an adequate sampling of the relevant ongoings of the world in a wide variety of topics, which I like. Its also got great sports coverage. Yahoo News isn't terrible either as it grabs stuff from everywhere. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, I check regularly, but just cant spend much time there as its skewed intentionally to be manipulative rather than just let one know what is happening in the world. And again, I'm not just referring to politics.
Gregmal, thanks for your mature and respectful response.

I admit that I have engaged in reading the Post, but I consider it a guilty pleasure. I personally wouldn't cite the NYPost as a reputable source of information. Supposedly impartial ratings groups actually rate Fox, CNN, MSNBC as being less biased and closer to being primary information than NYPost. Check out any of the media bias charts for one easy and quick reference point.

Wikipedia may be a questionable source, but I would certainly rank it higher than NYPost. Wikipedia says the following about NYPost:

Quote
The Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch's ownership for sensationalism, blatant advocacy, and conservative bias. In 1980, the Columbia Journalism Review stated "New York Post is no longer merely a journalistic problem. It is a social problem – a force for evil."

Perhaps the most serious allegation against the Post is that it is willing to contort its news coverage to suit Murdoch's business needs, in particular that the paper has avoided reporting anything that is unflattering to the government of the People's Republic of China, where Murdoch has invested heavily in satellite television. Although, it has recently allowed criticism of the People's Republic of China and it's handling of the Hong Kong protests.

In The New Yorker, Ken Auletta writes that Murdoch "doesn’t hesitate to use the Post to belittle his business opponents". He goes on to say that Murdoch's support for Edward I. Koch while he was running for mayor of New York "spilled over onto the news pages of the Post, with the paper regularly publishing glowing stories about Koch and sometimes savage accounts of his four primary opponents."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post

To both interject some fun and to highlight the fact that the New York Post is a tabloid, I suggest the following search for your amusement:

https://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=new+york+post+worst+headlines&tbm=isch&source=univ&client=safari&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRtNyj1pnlAhXFY98KHccNCi8QsAR6BAgJEAE&biw=1202&bih=714

Gregmal

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #198 on: October 13, 2019, 10:25:19 AM »
True, but for me a lot of it is probably(after a tiny bit of thought) the formatting as well. They have 4-6 top stories and then just categories where its 4-5 stories under each, typically being the most relevant at the moment, and occasionally, yes, most gossipy or clickbaitish. But I'd find it more appealing to scroll through an entire log of different subjects with the highlighted subjects equally presented than have to deal with Fox or CNN where they cram as much political nonsense into the first 75% of their feed. Heck even if I go to CNN sports, they still dont stop. I still get "Why NBA coach keeps calling out Trump" and I'm like, fuck, I just want to know what the Devils did last night or who's the game 4 starter for the Yankees.

https://www.foxnews.com

https://www.cnn.com

https://nypost.com


Check it out and see what I mean. I'd rather scroll through the occasional "Who's Miley Hooking Up With Now" headline versus 70,000 different reiterations of political bullshit.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 10:27:23 AM by Gregmal »

Read the Footnotes

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Re: The President, bribery, and Ukraine
« Reply #199 on: Today at 03:25:23 AM »
John Bolton was reportedly so concerned by the Ukraine call that he told aides to contact the White House lawyers.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/europe/465790-bolton-told-ex-trump-aide-to-call-white-house-lawyers-about

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bolton-instructed-former-russia-adviser-to-talk-to-nsc-lawyer-over-ukraine

Trump's disinformation campaign's narrative that the only person with an was some misguided deep state low-level hack is going to be hard to maintain, especially if Bolton testifies to Congress. Bolton is a Republican, a political appointee and was the National Security Advisor.

It will be interesting to watch Trump attack and try to discredit Bolton. Any guesses as to what nickname he will get?