Author Topic: They got what they deserve  (Read 1575 times)

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Parsad

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2019, 01:06:38 PM »
It's not a crisis...yet.  And it's forcing more people to go fill up in the U.S.  So how is it that scenario is going to help Alberta?!

I live less than 10 minutes from the U.S. border.  I fill up there every other week.  Be careful with your condemnations and assumptions, because it could back fire.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

sculpin

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2019, 02:10:10 PM »
It's not a crisis...yet.  And it's forcing more people to go fill up in the U.S.  So how is it that scenario is going to help Alberta?!

I live less than 10 minutes from the U.S. border.  I fill up there every other week.  Be careful with your condemnations and assumptions, because it could back fire.  Cheers!

Do you have any problems dodging the taxes on Canadian gasoline that pay the social services in BC that most of the other drivers have to pay for when you go get your gasoline in Washington State? Did you vote for Horgan or Weaver who have imposed these new taxes & are responsible for stopping the twinning of the TMP? Do you support the carbon tax imposed on BC drivers that is avoided when burning gasoline to go fuel up over the border?

So much hypocrisy in BC. Look at all of the coal (both US & Canadian) sent to Asia from Westshore & other places - far more dirty & polluting. Why no tax on this or a complete halting of this process if BC politicians & their supporters want to stop oil from Alberta "for the environment. Why the encouragement of more & more filthy cruise ships each Summer into the ports of Victoria & up the coast of BC. Does this not harm Orcas as much as an additional single oil tanker? Äll those particulate emissions raining down on the Great Bear rain forest!! Where are the politicians, protestors etc?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/air-pollution/news/daily-emissions-of-cruise-ships-same-as-one-million-cars/


« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 02:11:42 PM by sculpin »

Cardboard

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2019, 06:11:03 PM »
Oh yeah, I should be really careful with my condemnations:

"Alberta's own fiscal mismanagement over two decades!  You reep what you sow and Alberta has sown nothing when things were good.  Cheers!"

Cheers!!!

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Parsad

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 06:51:42 PM »
It's not a crisis...yet.  And it's forcing more people to go fill up in the U.S.  So how is it that scenario is going to help Alberta?!

I live less than 10 minutes from the U.S. border.  I fill up there every other week.  Be careful with your condemnations and assumptions, because it could back fire.  Cheers!

Do you have any problems dodging the taxes on Canadian gasoline that pay the social services in BC that most of the other drivers have to pay for when you go get your gasoline in Washington State? Did you vote for Horgan or Weaver who have imposed these new taxes & are responsible for stopping the twinning of the TMP? Do you support the carbon tax imposed on BC drivers that is avoided when burning gasoline to go fuel up over the border?

So much hypocrisy in BC. Look at all of the coal (both US & Canadian) sent to Asia from Westshore & other places - far more dirty & polluting. Why no tax on this or a complete halting of this process if BC politicians & their supporters want to stop oil from Alberta "for the environment. Why the encouragement of more & more filthy cruise ships each Summer into the ports of Victoria & up the coast of BC. Does this not harm Orcas as much as an additional single oil tanker? Äll those particulate emissions raining down on the Great Bear rain forest!! Where are the politicians, protestors etc?

https://www.euractiv.com/section/air-pollution/news/daily-emissions-of-cruise-ships-same-as-one-million-cars/

I pay for those social services with the income and property taxes I pay...which is far higher than the average.  I'm not a fan of consumption taxes except for luxury vehicles...I think they are regressive and harm those that are at the opposite end of the income range they are targeting.  I voted for Christy Clark, as well as believe in twinning the Trans-Canada pipeline.  But threats from Alberta to shut off gas is only going to back fire on desperate Albertans!

By the way, BC doesn't have a problem with increased tankers, but with the long-term, permanent ecological impact from tanker spills...that's a hell of a lot different than cruise ships coming into port.  The comparison is more like a 20-year environmental disaster versus 500 cars driving into the Vancouver area from the suburbs.  This is the same argument with Westshore...it's not the product that BC has a problem with, but disasters occurring in Burrard Inlet or the Georgia Straight.  Imagine oil sands impacting the environment around Calgary or Edmonton, rather than all the way out in Fort McMurray.  Would Albertan's be ok with that?  Cheers!
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bizaro86

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 07:11:11 PM »
The gasoline in WA mostly comes from AB oil as well, down the same transmountain system. The primary difference in cost between the two places is tax and regulatory burden price differences.

If AB did shut down transmountain, Washington State gas prices would go up dramatically as well.

Parsad

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 08:00:30 PM »
The gasoline in WA mostly comes from AB oil as well, down the same transmountain system. The primary difference in cost between the two places is tax and regulatory burden price differences.

If AB did shut down transmountain, Washington State gas prices would go up dramatically as well.

Only about 25% of Washington's oil comes from Canada...most of it comes from Alaska.  They could increase delivery from other sources if required.  Again, why would Alberta want to get involved in a dispute with Washington state?

Rather than threatening rhertoric, they should be working on a solution with BC.  Cheers!
No man is a failure who has friends!

SharperDingaan

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 08:41:57 PM »
I'm sorry, but this is just straight dumb.
Alberta can't get enough oil/gas to tidewater ... and now wants to cut back on what actually IS going through the pipe?
Hey boys, it'll make the Albertan economy even worse, but it'll make us feel great!
Real smart.

Vancouverites will just buy their gas accross the border, BC will import directly from the US, Americans will get the work, and more Albertans will lose their jobs. But hey, the screaming kids in the backseat of the car know everything right?

Six months ago this would have been laughed at - now it's suddenly acceptable?
Looks to us like Albertans are being manipulated, but done slowly so as to avoid setting off alarms. Even through two world wars, Canadian provinces didn't threaten each other. Now they suddenly do - and no alarms go off?

SD

Cigarbutt

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2019, 04:41:30 AM »
Proportional amount of oil moving to Washington State from Alberta
2018: 30%
Q4 2018: 29%

Oil transport modes in Washington State
             vessel       pipeline        rail
2003       91%           9%            0%
2013       67%           24%          8%
2018       45%           28%          28% 

Washington can move its procurement back to previous patterns but there would be a price so Alberta is right to use the stick argument.

However, I would say that the end consumer will continue to be rationally sensitive to reliable and cheap sources of energy during the transition and IMHO Alberta will need to polish its carrot argument and that may imply listening to endangered bird species presentations, reducing hostility in the "new" political climate and accept that the Energy Boards call themselves the Department of Ecology.
https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/publications/documents/1908005.pdf

Oil will flow and so will the dollars.

For those interested in intra-national comparisons, I've found this site to be useful:
https://charting.kentgroupltd.com/Charting/FullMonty

The gasoline prices variables help to see how regional differences can be harmonized into a national priority.

Cardboard

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2019, 05:27:13 AM »
Reading some of the arguments here is just appaling.

Every week, oil tankers move up and down the St Lawrence River or one of the largest in the world and where tourists go to see whales and majestic scenery. Yup, bringing "clean" oil from Saudi Arabia and other unsavory places at a growing pace.

Where is the outcry about spill dangers to the whale population, land, lobster/crab business?

Every week, oil tankers move up and down the West coast of B.C.. They come from Alaska and even Russia and head down to the U.S. West coast.

Where is the outcry about spill dangers to the whale population, land, lobster/crab business?

I cannot recall any major incident or spill in the St Lawrence nor on the coast in B.C. There was a big one in Alaska in the 80's or the Exxon Valdez and from that point on we learned a few things:

1- Double hull vessels only
2- Competent and sober captains

For those unaware, the St Lawrence is actually quite tricky to navigate. So what has been put in place is that a local pilot comes on board as soon as any large foreign vessel gets into the river.

http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/business-and-industry/pilotage_authorities.html 

Are people aware that the same system also exist in B.C. today?

https://www.bccoastpilots.com/marine-pilots/

So why Bill C-48 or basically shutting down Canadian oil flow on the west coast while we allow Americans, Russians and vessels from almost any country to move their oil both on the West and East coast?

This shows the stupidity of our Premier Turdo: prevent oil shipments out of Kitimat B.C. but, send more for shipment in the Vancouver area...

Actually, him and Butts may not be that stupid. They knew that TransMountain would face opposition. So maybe that by killing Northern Gateway + introducing Bill C-48, that they knew that none of the two projects would make it to the end line?

Regarding Sanjeev's proposal of trying to deal with B.C., unfortunately it is just a dead end with current government in place. Rachel tried it and she lost badly.

So a new approach is required and needs to hurt. Reducing the amount of gasoline, diesel and kerosene going through TransMountain is a good one IMO. We can always ship by rail more refined products to the U.S. vs oil. Everybody wants our goods. It is just a few dick heads trying to block us from end users.

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