Author Topic: They got what they deserve  (Read 1349 times)

Parsad

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2019, 01:38:43 PM »
Reading some of the arguments here is just appaling.

Every week, oil tankers move up and down the St Lawrence River or one of the largest in the world and where tourists go to see whales and majestic scenery. Yup, bringing "clean" oil from Saudi Arabia and other unsavory places at a growing pace.

Where is the outcry about spill dangers to the whale population, land, lobster/crab business?

Every week, oil tankers move up and down the West coast of B.C.. They come from Alaska and even Russia and head down to the U.S. West coast.

Where is the outcry about spill dangers to the whale population, land, lobster/crab business?

I cannot recall any major incident or spill in the St Lawrence nor on the coast in B.C. There was a big one in Alaska in the 80's or the Exxon Valdez and from that point on we learned a few things:

1- Double hull vessels only
2- Competent and sober captains

For those unaware, the St Lawrence is actually quite tricky to navigate. So what has been put in place is that a local pilot comes on board as soon as any large foreign vessel gets into the river.

http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/business-and-industry/pilotage_authorities.html 

Are people aware that the same system also exist in B.C. today?

https://www.bccoastpilots.com/marine-pilots/

So why Bill C-48 or basically shutting down Canadian oil flow on the west coast while we allow Americans, Russians and vessels from almost any country to move their oil both on the West and East coast?

This shows the stupidity of our Premier Turdo: prevent oil shipments out of Kitimat B.C. but, send more for shipment in the Vancouver area...

Actually, him and Butts may not be that stupid. They knew that TransMountain would face opposition. So maybe that by killing Northern Gateway + introducing Bill C-48, that they knew that none of the two projects would make it to the end line?

Regarding Sanjeev's proposal of trying to deal with B.C., unfortunately it is just a dead end with current government in place. Rachel tried it and she lost badly.

So a new approach is required and needs to hurt. Reducing the amount of gasoline, diesel and kerosene going through TransMountain is a good one IMO. We can always ship by rail more refined products to the U.S. vs oil. Everybody wants our goods. It is just a few dick heads trying to block us from end users.

Cardboard

Cardboard, I'm in favour of pipelines...they are safer in transporting oil than railcar, etc.  The quandry and debate isn't about the pipeline...it's about increasing the number of Aframax tankers from currently 50 to 480 if the pipeline gets built.  It's like Buffett's discussion around a nuclear detonation...if you have a 1-2% chance in any given year, then it becomes a certainty over 50-100 years.  If we have 480 tankers going in and out, up and down our coast line, it's almost a certainty we would see an Exxon Valdez size catastrophe over decades.  BC isn't trying to screw over Alberta, but they have a fundamental duty to ensure that their own assets aren't permanently destroyed from negligence or accidents.  That would be common sense, no?  Cheers!
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Viking

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2019, 03:41:43 PM »
I live in BC (Vancouver) and hearing Horgan talk about LOWERING gas prices to help consumers is complete crap. The NDP/Greens in BC (and Trudeau Liberals) should be be straight with consumers in BC and let them know that they welcome gas prices over $1.80/litre (which is the truth). In fact $2.50-$3.00 per litre would make them even more happy.

The reason is simple: there should be a cost on pullution (we are told). And this cost needs to be much, much higher. Those who drive a vehicle are evil and they need to pay more. And those who own an SUV or truck are especially evil as these vehicles pollute the worst (get the worst gas milage).

High has prices will result in fewer km driven. People will choose to purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. Much higher gas prices will simply accelerate the process...

Parsad

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2019, 03:58:28 PM »
I live in BC (Vancouver) and hearing Horgan talk about LOWERING gas prices to help consumers is complete crap. The NDP/Greens in BC (and Trudeau Liberals) should be be straight with consumers in BC and let them know that they welcome gas prices over $1.80/litre (which is the truth). In fact $2.50-$3.00 per litre would make them even more happy.

The reason is simple: there should be a cost on pullution (we are told). And this cost needs to be much, much higher. Those who drive a vehicle are evil and they need to pay more. And those who own an SUV or truck are especially evil as these vehicles pollute the worst (get the worst gas milage).

High has prices will result in fewer km driven. People will choose to purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. Much higher gas prices will simply accelerate the process...

Hi Viking, I really think it's a combination of higher taxes and there is price gouging occurring.  Remember when Jeff What'shisname from CIBC said that oil was going to hit $200 a barrel in 2007...it was like at $85-90/barrel then...but gas prices still barely cracked $1.50/liter in Vancouver.  So how the heck can it be $1.70/liter at $50/barrel?  We haven't padded on that much in taxes alone.  Cheers!
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Viking

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 04:19:26 PM »
I live in BC (Vancouver) and hearing Horgan talk about LOWERING gas prices to help consumers is complete crap. The NDP/Greens in BC (and Trudeau Liberals) should be be straight with consumers in BC and let them know that they welcome gas prices over $1.80/litre (which is the truth). In fact $2.50-$3.00 per litre would make them even more happy.

The reason is simple: there should be a cost on pullution (we are told). And this cost needs to be much, much higher. Those who drive a vehicle are evil and they need to pay more. And those who own an SUV or truck are especially evil as these vehicles pollute the worst (get the worst gas milage).

High has prices will result in fewer km driven. People will choose to purchase more fuel efficient vehicles. Much higher gas prices will simply accelerate the process...

Hi Viking, I really think it's a combination of higher taxes and there is price gouging occurring.  Remember when Jeff What'shisname from CIBC said that oil was going to hit $200 a barrel in 2007...it was like at $85-90/barrel then...but gas prices still barely cracked $1.50/liter in Vancouver.  So how the heck can it be $1.70/liter at $50/barrel?  We haven't padded on that much in taxes alone.  Cheers!

Here is a very good summary of the situation: https://vancouversun.com/news/canada/why-vancouver-is-still-getting-utterly-hosed-on-gas-prices/wcm/88037cee-c20a-4b2b-819f-7071c63ee76c

1.) Thereís only one refinery
2.) Thereís also only one pipeline (and itís full)
3.) B.C. fuel regulations drive up costs
4.) The weak loonie isnít helping
5.) Itís not like Washington State gas is all that cheap, either
6.) And donít forget all the taxes

ďParent cautioned against the assumption that a high refining margin automatically means higher profits. All manner of costs, from transportation expenses to regulatory compliance, can swell a refinery margin. Jennifer Winter, an energy economist at the University of Calgary, was also skeptical that Vancouverís prices could be attributed to malice. ďA large refining margin is usually a function of transportation constraints rather than a deliberate exercise of market power,Ē she said, adding that plenty of Canadian cities rely on small numbers of fuel providers without their refinery margins skyrocketing.Ē

ďThe Lower Mainland used to have four refineries, but shut down three of them in the early 1990s. The result is that most of Vancouverís gasoline has to be refined elsewhere, which leaves the region vulnerable to wild swings in prices. Imagine if Vancouver closed most of its bakeries and relied on Alberta and Washington State to provide most of its fresh bread: All it would take would be one storm or highway closure for baguette prices to leap out of control.Ē

Thereís also only one pipeline (and itís full): ďUp to 60 per cent of the fossil fuels burned in Vancouver start life in an Edmonton refinery. From there, theyíre loaded into the Trans Mountain pipeline and shipped west. But the pipeline canít fully meet the needs of an expanding Lower Mainland and itís already full. The result is that Vancouver is increasingly dependent on Washington State to meet its fuel needs.Ē

Bottom line is NDP government is in a pickle; they MUST have the support of the BC Green party to stay in power. As a result they are highly unlikely to deal with this issue in a long term sort of way. The result will be more gas coming from Washington State and much higher prices for BC residents.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 04:25:40 PM by Viking »

SharperDingaan

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Re: They got what they deserve
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 06:25:31 AM »
The higher Vancouver gas prices go, the more realistic, and RELIABLE, it becomes to just import by the tanker load from Galveston. Fuel flowing EAST from tidewater to interior BC, just as fuel currently flows WEST from tidewater to Montreal. Alberta becomes ENTIRELY captive to south bound pipelines - and forced to gratefully accept whatever price, the Americans CHOOSE to pay. Charming.

In Albertan eyes, Horgan simply has to go; by whatever means possible. An obvious no-brainer - yet everywhere else in the world this is called regime change, VZ being a current example. Hard to see how voluntarily cutting your own throat, and toppling fellow provincial governments, isn't manipulation. The real question is to what end?

Just a different POV

SD
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 09:06:16 AM by SharperDingaan »