Author Topic: Trump and Erdogan  (Read 1311 times)

Gregmal

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2019, 01:33:27 PM »
Well in all seriousness, if it was sarcasm it probably wasn’t a very appropriate place for it. And in conjunction with his other remarks like “I am a very stable genius” I really think it is just his narcissistic personality coming out. However, we are all tend to see what we want or expect to see.

Ok sure. But even if it is tinted with his "narcissistic personality", why view it as anything but a joke? The guy can be a clown. No reason to get so bothered by it. Just like when Obama dramatically confessed "I am my brothers keeper" with the same delivery as a C list thespian, its like what ever. Guys a goof. Trump admittedly trolls all these folks and knows the media and lefties will have a conniption with anything he says. No need to get invested in that stuff. Just laugh at it. Turkey is a shithole run by a bunch of maniacs..blow em off the map for all I care. They are worse than many of the other Middle Eastern places because they regularly play both sides of the fence and willingly harbor terrorists and people who support terror.

Lots of people who have spent time around Trump say that he has absolutely NO sense of humor. Check out the issues around roasting Donald Trump. Check out what people who worked for him at The Trump Organization. Check out what people who were on the Apprentice say. I have never heard anyone say Trump has a sense of humor about himself. That's what made the roast so difficult for the comedians.

On the Joe Rogan Experience, Penn Jillette said that in his two seasons that he was on Celebrity Apprentice the only time he saw Trump laugh was when it was a bullying chuckle after he said something insulting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-UK40_XkWw

 Those who have spent significant time around him unanimously say that one of the most notable things about Trump is that he is the most humorless person they have ever been around. The idea that you can dismiss much of what Trump does as his sense of humor doesn't seem to fit with anyone who has been around him.

You're quoting his critics and making a sweeping generalization when you can just as easily find clips of him making jokes and attempting humor at various rallies, and even retweeting things on his Twitter accounts that can't possibly be taken as anything other than a joke. I mean your claim is quite astounding when even you bring up the Comedy Central roast in which the participant willingly agrees to be the center of everyones jokes...which....many celebrities refuse to do and even some that originally agreed, backed out.

The ability of the internet to provide people with whatever they need to fit whatever narrative they want to fill is quite awesome, isn't it....
Fair enough. I'd like to see some examples of him making jokes or being funny that aren't either attempts at false modesty or making attacks on people who are his critics.

I would especially like to see examples of word play, which some people consider the highest form of humor.

While risking the irony of spending time commenting on such things, yet also dismissing them, I'd simply ask why you care so much? Like do you really care enough to spend time research and subjectively analyzing material and footage in order to still, inconclusively, make a determination if....Donald Trump is a jokester?? I really don't care that much either way, it certainly would not change my life either way if we could conclusively and definitively get an answer to that, but even if we wanted to we probably cant...

So . . . you don't have any examples to point to?

If you tell me it changes your life I could probably pull up a few later. But this to me just seems like a continuation of your crusade of pointless debates, critiques, and polls. None of which have really changed any lives at CoBF(to my knowledge) or made anyone any money...


Read the Footnotes

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2019, 01:51:08 PM »
Well in all seriousness, if it was sarcasm it probably wasn’t a very appropriate place for it. And in conjunction with his other remarks like “I am a very stable genius” I really think it is just his narcissistic personality coming out. However, we are all tend to see what we want or expect to see.

Ok sure. But even if it is tinted with his "narcissistic personality", why view it as anything but a joke? The guy can be a clown. No reason to get so bothered by it. Just like when Obama dramatically confessed "I am my brothers keeper" with the same delivery as a C list thespian, its like what ever. Guys a goof. Trump admittedly trolls all these folks and knows the media and lefties will have a conniption with anything he says. No need to get invested in that stuff. Just laugh at it. Turkey is a shithole run by a bunch of maniacs..blow em off the map for all I care. They are worse than many of the other Middle Eastern places because they regularly play both sides of the fence and willingly harbor terrorists and people who support terror.

Lots of people who have spent time around Trump say that he has absolutely NO sense of humor. Check out the issues around roasting Donald Trump. Check out what people who worked for him at The Trump Organization. Check out what people who were on the Apprentice say. I have never heard anyone say Trump has a sense of humor about himself. That's what made the roast so difficult for the comedians.

On the Joe Rogan Experience, Penn Jillette said that in his two seasons that he was on Celebrity Apprentice the only time he saw Trump laugh was when it was a bullying chuckle after he said something insulting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-UK40_XkWw

 Those who have spent significant time around him unanimously say that one of the most notable things about Trump is that he is the most humorless person they have ever been around. The idea that you can dismiss much of what Trump does as his sense of humor doesn't seem to fit with anyone who has been around him.

You're quoting his critics and making a sweeping generalization when you can just as easily find clips of him making jokes and attempting humor at various rallies, and even retweeting things on his Twitter accounts that can't possibly be taken as anything other than a joke. I mean your claim is quite astounding when even you bring up the Comedy Central roast in which the participant willingly agrees to be the center of everyones jokes...which....many celebrities refuse to do and even some that originally agreed, backed out.

The ability of the internet to provide people with whatever they need to fit whatever narrative they want to fill is quite awesome, isn't it....
Fair enough. I'd like to see some examples of him making jokes or being funny that aren't either attempts at false modesty or making attacks on people who are his critics.

I would especially like to see examples of word play, which some people consider the highest form of humor.

While risking the irony of spending time commenting on such things, yet also dismissing them, I'd simply ask why you care so much? Like do you really care enough to spend time research and subjectively analyzing material and footage in order to still, inconclusively, make a determination if....Donald Trump is a jokester?? I really don't care that much either way, it certainly would not change my life either way if we could conclusively and definitively get an answer to that, but even if we wanted to we probably cant...

So . . . you don't have any examples to point to?

If you tell me it changes your life I could probably pull up a few later. But this to me just seems like a continuation of your crusade of pointless debates, critiques, and polls. None of which have really changed any lives at CoBF(to my knowledge) or made anyone any money...
Yes. Please do. I could use a laugh.

Cardboard

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2019, 02:13:37 PM »
Read the Footnotes you are nothing but, a troll. Get lost #^#$#!!!

no_free_lunch

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2019, 05:15:17 PM »
Really the argument is now whether he ever jokes?  Ok, it is easily proven but maybe we can step up the level just a touch.

At least cwerib and viking are legitimately trying to debate.

Anyways here you go.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/trump-jokes-freaking-out-great-way-to-make-sure-he-wins-in-2020/amp/
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:17:57 PM by no_free_lunch »

Read the Footnotes

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2019, 05:41:03 PM »
Really the argument is now whether he ever jokes?  Ok, it is easily proven but maybe we can step up the level just a touch.

At least cwerib and viking are legitimately trying to debate.

Anyways here you go.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/trump-jokes-freaking-out-great-way-to-make-sure-he-wins-in-2020/amp/

No Free Lunch, I don't appreciate the personal attack, if that's what that was, but I do appreciate you putting in some effort and making reference to some facts instead of making 100% personal attacks.

I found a youtube video of the joke mentioned in the article you referenced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72syQS_tGp8

I admit you found one that is mildly funny, especially compared to his other similar attempts. Usually when he tries to joke in situations like that I find it absolutely cringeworthy.

Since that could have been written for him, I'm not sure it undermines my point which was what people who have spent time around him say, which is that one of the most unusual parts of his personality is his lack of a sense of humor.

Thank you for putting in some effort and arguing with facts.

Edit: The reason whether he ever jokes is relevant is because that has been a defense against the charge of sedition. One of the defenses his supporters have been trying out on the circuit is to just say that he was kidding any time he is accused of something. That has been going on for years, but is escalating recently.

Edit #2: I was kind of hoping that someone would prove me wrong because that would mean I learned something, but I originally said jokes "that aren't either attempts at false modesty", unfortunately, upon reflection I think this joke is a riff on the false modesty joke that he does over and over again at engagements like these, so I'm not sure that it should count, even though it is funnier than most.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 06:24:08 PM by Read the Footnotes »

LC

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2019, 07:55:30 PM »
They are only fighting Isis because Isis was attacking them in Syria and Iraq. It was self defense.

...

I actually liked his comments on turkey. You need to go listen to the crazy rhetoric from Erdogan to really understand where he is coming from.

All the while you both continue to ignore my comments regarding complete apathy by EU.  Why are they not held responsible?  This is right on their doorstep.

A few points: On the US-Kurdish relationship: Yes it is in the best interest of the Kurds to fight Isis. It's also in the best interest of the US. This is why we have been working with them for years. It's literally how alliances are formed. Mutual interest.

On Erdogan: The guy is a goon, anti-democratic, and a pseudo-autocrat. No wonder Trump jumps onto phone calls with him.

On the EU: they absolutely should be involved, however it is worth noting that they have refused Turkey's desires to join the EU based on Erdogan's nonsensical government. At least in that matter, cooler heads have prevailed (for now).

None of this excuses Trump's actions, and it's another piece of marble chipped away at US international relations. International partners will not trust us when we work with them in one month and turn our back on them the next.
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no_free_lunch

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2019, 09:09:46 PM »
Reading Footnotes,

It's not really a question of how funny he is. The point is he makes jokes and he makes jokes where he apes himself being self obsessed.  I felt you were just throwing the conversation under the bus with an argument that is easily disproven.  So, I called you out on it.  It's not really personal, I'm just saying if we are gonna argue, let's argue over the real issues.

LC,

You see the issue and I think you basically agree with me.  The US needs to find ways to free their military up from these commitments.  It makes you weaker.  I guess, to be fair, he could have given more notice.  It was crudely done.  That being said, there is never going to be a right time.  I think if he can make Syria happen, then it is very possible Afghanistan is next.


LC

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2019, 09:18:11 PM »
Quote
The US needs to find ways to free their military up from these commitments.
I agree but it needs to be done intelligently and it shouldn't involve chummy phone calls with pseudo-dictators. But like you say I think we both agree the US spends too much time money and effort policing.

Quote
It was crudely done
Just as a final thought in the form of a crude metaphor: in the realm of international relations, crude behavior is recoiling to everyone involved. The more shit you spew, the more those closest to you pull back, and eventually you're left standing alone in a pile of your own filth.
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Read the Footnotes

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Re: Trump and Erdogan
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2019, 09:44:40 AM »
So . . . Trump started a war in Syria to distract us? Haven't we seen this movie before?

"Nobody has been tougher on Russia than me." -Donald Trump

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/feb/20/donald-trump/has-donald-trump-been-much-tougher-russia-barack-o/

The truth is that Syria and Ukraine were the front lines of a new cold war between the US and Russia and Trump just gave Putin another giant gift.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/14/the-new-cold-war-is-boiling-over-in-syria/